Review That Review with Chelsey Donn & Trey Gerrald
Episode 128: "Marie's Crisis with Guest of Honor JOE KINOSIAN"
Transcription
*Please pardon any and all spelling errors!
[00:00:00] THEME SONG: Everybody's got an opinion.
Every Californian and Virginian.
It's so hard to tell who to trust and who to ignore.
Someone's gotta settle the score.
Trey and Chelsey will help you choose!
Whose views win, which ones lose.
Online haters are comin' for you!
Baby, it's time to Review That Review!
[00:00:30] CHELSEY DONN: Hello,
[00:00:31] TREY GERRALD: Oh my god, hello and welcome to Review That Review! We are the podcast that is dedicated to reviewing.
[00:00:40] CHELSEY DONN: Review,
[00:00:42] TREY GERRALD: That is Chelsey Donn.
[00:00:44] CHELSEY DONN: and that is Trey Gerrald,
[00:00:47] TREY GERRALD: And when we come together, we are,
[00:00:50] VOICEOVER: The Review Queens,
[00:00:53] CHELSEY DONN: and y'all, we are so excited and happy today because this week, we've got a very special,
[00:01:01] VOICEOVER: Guest of Honor,
[00:01:11] TREY GERRALD: yeah, so every so often we love to invite a special guest of honor onto the show to share some of their experiences dealing with online reviews from their unique position.
[00:01:22] CHELSEY DONN: with their expertise, we have them don their Review Queen crown, and help us inspect an online review,
[00:01:30] TREY GERRALD: And today, you guys, We have Joe Kinosian, oh my god,
[00:01:38] CHELSEY DONN: We did it Joe! We did it! Joe is the writer and composer of and frequent performer in the musical Murder for Two, which won Chicago's Jeff Award for Best New Musical and earned Joe a Jeff Award nomination for Best Leading Actor before opening Off Broadway. The Off Broadway production of Murder for Two earned What?
A Drama Desk, Drama League, and Outer Critics Circle Award nominations, and went on to a two year national tour. Murder for Two has since been performed all around the country, as well as internationally in Japan, Korea, England, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, and Australia.
[00:02:23] TREY GERRALD: God I might, Joe also wrote and composed the musical, It Came From Outer Space, with longtime writing partner, Kellen Blair, which had its world premiere in Chicago last summer, and will hopefully be seen again soon, wink wink, Joe was also the writer composer, and performed 15 historical characters on History Comedy Podcast, Let's Start a Coup, Exclamation mark, which is an iHeartMedia original, excuse me.
As an actor, Joe's performed regionally in plays like An Act of God and his dream role, the title character in The Nerd. Joe also does the best Miss Piggy impression this side of Frank Oz, which we're gonna have to hear a little later. But, all of you listeners, definitely know the name Joe Kinosian for his work as the composer and lyricist of our very own theme song!
[00:03:16] CHELSEY DONN: That's right! I mean, how could we be more in your debt? Every, every single time I listen to that song, I get excited and it's my show, which is, I don't know what that says about me, but like, I love it so much and I'm so grateful for you, like, the
[00:03:32] TREY GERRALD: I felt a little nervous because we always dance to the song, and having Joe in the room, I felt nervous. Anyway, that was a long time for Joe to sit quietly and patiently. So, without further ado, we've got to welcome our very special guest of honor, Mr. Joe Kinosian!
[00:03:49] JOE KINOSIAN: my god, I'm so happy to be here and, um, yeah, I love that song too. We had, we danced to it while we were in the recording room with, uh, with Natalie.
[00:04:01] CHELSEY DONN: Incredible.
[00:04:02] TREY GERRALD: wait, so let's go back to 20, um, what was that, 2021, maybe? And, what was your thought when we reached out to you and, and what did you think?
[00:04:12] JOE KINOSIAN: No, I was so excited and... I feel like what inspired the song was the cover art because you had that first and you sent me that, you know, that beautiful, it's like black with the neon and I was like, oh, that looks like very sort of 80s, LA, like palm trees on sunsets. And it was like, I thought of the band, The Cardigans, you know, of loveful fame.
So I was like that sort of like surfy 80s vibe.
[00:04:44] TREY GERRALD: It's amazing.
[00:04:45] CHELSEY DONN: so good. I just still remember listening to the first ever recording that you sang and I was obsessed Like even I mean obviously Natalie brings the like all the sparkle and the glitter and
[00:04:58] JOE KINOSIAN: Review! I can't do that.
[00:05:00] CHELSEY DONN: I just will never ever forget that moment of listening to that recording. So thank you so much for this
[00:05:05] JOE KINOSIAN: Trey, do we? You're so welcome, and I'm, I'm honored to have done it and to be here. But you know, Trey, what we should have pulled up is you remember you sent me like your lyrical idea brainstorm?
[00:05:18] TREY GERRALD: Yes. Uh huh.
[00:05:19] JOE KINOSIAN: And it was kind of the shape of what the song became, but it was like, just like phrases.
[00:05:24] TREY GERRALD: Much better. Yours was much better. Patreon members will know that we, maybe six episodes ago, reviewed for our 100th after show, one of our dress rehearsals and it was us playing that demo recording. So if you're on Patreon, you actually get to hear Joe's demo. But Joe, we're so glad that you're here and we want to like get into the nitty gritty of reviews.
So we're curious from your point of view as someone who has created musicals from the ground up. And as someone who is a performer, who gets constantly critiqued and reviewed, like, how do reviews affect you as a creator, as an artist, all of that?
[00:06:00] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, you know, you, you don't want to give them as much credit as you sort of have to. And I'm thinking of that, you know, there's the professional reviews, like the ones in the papers, and then there's the, you know, just the people who are talking online. And I feel like I've gotten pretty good at ignoring people online.
I just try to stay away from the comments or, you know, have, if friends have like read the comments, like, I can ask them, were they good or should I stay away from this one? But yeah, but, but the critics on the papers, I think you just have to, They're serving their purpose and, So you were saying, I've got musicals from the ground up, And I have, twice, But in between those two were six that never even went anywhere, So it's like the act of getting the one all the way to the stage, And then just have some critic be like, I didn't really see what they were going for, It's just like, it can be so demoralizing, so, Generally try to stay away and then also try to tell myself they have a purpose even if that doesn't necessarily apply to the work you're doing or trying to do.
[00:07:06] TREY GERRALD: Can you feel a distinction between the madness of Voices Online versus the professional critics paid for a newspaper?
[00:07:15] CHELSEY DONN: like a New York Times type article,
[00:07:17] JOE KINOSIAN: You know, my knee jerk is certain things I've done that have gotten like, like really positive comments from people online and sometimes the, the masses are more positive, weirdly, we wouldn't necessarily think of that where I think Professional critics have to maintain some level of, uh, dispassionate disconnect.
Like, they have to be a little bit too cool to, you know, just heap praise on something, because it's rare that, you know, they do that overwhelmingly. And I think for me too, like, I write silly stuff. I'm putting silly stuff on stage, like, hopefully well crafted, well executed silly stuff, but like, that's not necessarily fodder for the critics to, like, You know, lose their minds, except for, uh, the New York Times did really like Murder for Two, but that's, you know, that's just a separate
[00:08:07] TREY GERRALD: Well, because I'm,
[00:08:08] JOE KINOSIAN: and that felt really good, which is like, I feel like I shouldn't say that, but then we heard that review, and obviously they were, you know, quoting it in the papers and every, or on the poster, rather, and that was like, uh, I'd be lying if I said that wasn't like, oh my god,
[00:08:22] TREY GERRALD: Did the Times review it when it was in Chicago?
[00:08:25] JOE KINOSIAN: no, um, the Times just reviewed it when it was in New York.
[00:08:30] TREY GERRALD: So what was that process from the overwhelming response in Chicago to how many years passed before it transferred, or before it went to Off Broadway?
[00:08:41] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, interestingly enough, this is actually very applicable to what we were saying. The reviews when we opened in Chicago were not super positive. We were supposed to run for five weeks, and I remember after the reviews came out, particularly one famous Chicago paper that shall remain nameless, but was featured heavily in the sitcom Perfect Strangers,
[00:09:01] CHELSEY DONN: mm hmm, mm hmm,
[00:09:03] JOE KINOSIAN: that, like, the audiences were, there were like 20 people there the night after that, and I was like, oh, so They got us, like, we're done, but people who came and saw the show liked it and started posting about it on TripAdvisor, of all things, and it started to climb the ranks of TripAdvisor, and then at one point during the summer, we were like above the aquarium, and I almost wanted to write in, like, you should go to the aquarium first, like, or do both,
[00:09:30] CHELSEY DONN: do both,
[00:09:31] JOE KINOSIAN: in a day,
[00:09:32] CHELSEY DONN: we're not competing with the Aquarium,
[00:09:34] JOE KINOSIAN: no,
[00:09:35] CHELSEY DONN: But I think that that's an interesting point and I think it's something that came up a little while ago when the whole Martin Short article came out that was really damning and then the public and the internet and whatever you want to call it was really able to come to his defense and I do think that's sort of fascinating like so often we look at these reviews on the internet as these trolls and horrible haters as we say in our song but you The opposite also exists, right?
Like, like you said, you got this bad review, but the public made it so much more popular than it was able to transfer off Broadway, so screw that guy, right? So there is something interesting about that balance.
[00:10:16] TREY GERRALD: I think especially in the culture we're moving into, because now you go see a Broadway show and they literally have pull quotes that are like Twitter user handles. Like it's not even Brantley, well it's not going to be Brantley, but like we are in a culture where oftentimes the, like all of these huge record breaking Broadway musicals like were almost universally reviewed very poorly.
It's like the crowds that love them.
[00:10:44] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah. Yeah. No, I was thinking about, we have seemingly all forgotten Wicked opened right when I
[00:10:50] CHELSEY DONN: I was good. Yeah.
[00:10:51] TREY GERRALD: hmm.
[00:10:51] JOE KINOSIAN: Wicked got really lackluster reviews, like average as best. And that's of that amazing 2003 season, like all those iconic shows that have stayed with us and Taboo, which was a lot of fun.
Uh, like Wicked's the one still doing like, yeah,
[00:11:08] CHELSEY DONN: And they recouped their money like faster than I think any other Broadway show. Like they broke so many records. I do wonder if a part of that is because that time being like the advent of Facebook and this sort of social media, social influence world. Yeah,
[00:11:26] TREY GERRALD: have one more follow up question. I also want to just explain anyone who has not heard of the musical Murder for Two. It is a two hander musical. That means two actor singers who also play the entire score. So they're both
[00:11:43] CHELSEY DONN: like
[00:11:44] TREY GERRALD: trained pianists
[00:11:46] JOE KINOSIAN: Yep.
[00:11:47] CHELSEY DONN: wow.
[00:11:48] TREY GERRALD: is a murder mystery where there's the detective is one actor, the other actor is all of the
[00:11:54] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, that's so cool.
[00:11:57] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm-Hmm?
[00:11:57] TREY GERRALD: created the show with Kellan Blair and played all of the suspects in Chicago. The show went on to Off Broadway, and Joe has done iterations of the production across the country. So is there
[00:12:14] CHELSEY DONN: LA. Come to LA. I want to see
[00:12:16] JOE KINOSIAN: I would
[00:12:16] TREY GERRALD: It was at the Geffen, right?
[00:12:18] JOE KINOSIAN: it was at
[00:12:18] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, was it?
[00:12:20] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, but that was before I knew you
[00:12:22] TREY GERRALD: I know.
[00:12:23] JOE KINOSIAN: or I would've,
[00:12:24] TREY GERRALD: But because you... Because you've done the show so many times, like, when you're doing a production in, like, Wichita, you're not, you're not reading the reviews anymore, or are you?
[00:12:36] JOE KINOSIAN: No. Oh. So I got my, my equity card in 2009 and . That was the last time I really read reviews. Because there was one review that it wasn't even mean, it was just like mildly disparaging about like how I was not as important as the other actors, which was true. Um,
[00:12:59] CHELSEY DONN: Okay.
[00:12:59] JOE KINOSIAN: I was like, yeah, but it like, it, it hurt me in a little, in a, in a way that I was like, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay away from these.
This is why people say to stay away from these. And since then I've, I've kind of been able to, to not, uh, not follow them.
[00:13:13] TREY GERRALD: But when you're mounting a show, and producers are truly treating these reviews like they're gold, because it has a huge impact on the livelihood of the production, They're the ones dealing with all of it, right? Like, you can sort of not have to deal with it because they're gonna look.
[00:13:31] JOE KINOSIAN: That's right. And, and that's why they come up. And that's why I know that, uh, the Chicago reviews were what they were because it was like, it was in the, the ether. Like, yeah, it was coming. It was coming at me, even if I didn't see it directly. Uh, yeah. And then they, producers often will, will find a way to like, hopefully if they're, they're caring and, and trying to, you know, genuinely improve the production of reading all of the reviews to distill what's really, really good.
Universal or like what is a recurring theme that should be addressed in rewrites? And um, yeah, but yeah, I don't know. It's just so funny. Like you just, you have to get your foot in the door so that you're like beyond that because I think so few people really do, really don't care about them at all levels.
You know, it's just like you do your thing, we'll do ours.
[00:14:25] TREY GERRALD: okay, but you just mentioned rewrites, and I'm curious also for the podcast, Let's Start a Coup, when you get these repeated opinions, did you start to think, Oh, maybe Murder for Two should be less silly? Should we try to write a song that isn't as silly? Or are you thinking, Okay, when I'm going on to season two of Let's Start a Coup, should I try to change something about myself?
[00:14:48] JOE KINOSIAN: Mmm, yeah, I mean, Kellen and I, writing Murder for Two together, we have a good sense of what we're going for, and what's in line with that goal, and what's not, and I remember the Times review of Murder for Two when we originally opened pointed out one Segment that was, it was a line that got cut between the nonprofit, uh, and then transferring to the commercial production.
'cause it was in two theaters in New York,
[00:15:17] TREY GERRALD: Oh my god, I forgot about that.
[00:15:19] JOE KINOSIAN: Pizza Hutt line
[00:15:21] TREY GERRALD: I don't know.
[00:15:22] JOE KINOSIAN: we came in after the review came out and we had this dumb line about pizza Hutt. It really was stupid. And the review pointed it out and the producer said in the next meeting, like, well, the times did not care for the pizza hotline. And we thought about, we're like, yeah, that is kind of dumb.
So we caught it. We cut it and caught it. We caught it and cut it before it transferred to the commercial production. So I guess in that sense, it was like, okay, we didn't change the whole tone of the show to be a Brechtian drama because, you know, someone didn't get the point, but someone who did get the point was like, you can do better than that, and we probably could.
[00:15:59] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:15:59] TREY GERRALD: on the flip side of these reviews, How impacted is your personal decision making by online reviews?
[00:16:06] JOE KINOSIAN: Um,
[00:16:09] TREY GERRALD: Like, do you look at reviews ever? For, like, a restaurant?
[00:16:13] JOE KINOSIAN: well, I'm the wrong person to ask because I go to like three restaurants, and I know they're great, because it's, they're the only three restaurants I go
[00:16:20] CHELSEY DONN: So what you're saying is you trust no one. You trust yourself. If you've been
[00:16:25] JOE KINOSIAN: I'm wearing a tinfoil hat right now. Yeah,
[00:16:28] CHELSEY DONN: If you've been there and you can vouch for it yourself, you're going.
[00:16:32] JOE KINOSIAN: I guess, is it hypocritical if I look at Yelp them? What do you think?
[00:16:36] CHELSEY DONN: Is it hypocritical? No. I mean, I look at Yelp all the time. I also ignore the haters. I don't, I feel like I exist on all ends of the spectrum. And I think that that's what's so great about what Trey and I do and what we'll get into when we get into the crowning of this review is we really are breaking down.
Like you said, some people have really negative things to say, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to go. That doesn't mean that it's a deal breaker for me. That might mean that actually, Like your producer was saying might end up being a positive, right? Like we read a review a couple weeks ago about a hayride and the person was like, not that scary and I'm afraid of my own shadow.
So I was like, that is excellent
[00:17:19] TREY GERRALD: my hair red. Right.
[00:17:21] CHELSEY DONN: my hayride. You know what I mean? So, so I do think that there's, there's something
[00:17:26] TREY GERRALD: like, if I am the child of the person who created Domino's, I'm going to love that line about Pizza Hut, because Pizza Hut is
[00:17:31] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh, yeah.
[00:17:33] CHELSEY DONN: Right. That's right.
[00:17:35] JOE KINOSIAN: maybe it's like the general tenor thing, like kind of how, you know, the producers, smart producers will kind of get the median feedback from the reviews that came out and then say, okay, they're all saying that this part is unclear or whatever it
[00:17:48] CHELSEY DONN: right. I mean, I think that, yeah, I think that the hardest thing is being branded with like that three and a half stars and just having people completely write you off.
[00:17:59] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm hmm. Wait, Chelsey, can I say one other thing that I love when you read my bio? How you were like, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, award nominations. You did it exactly right with just nominate, award as loud as you can be, and the nominations like, I'm moving on, moving on, and over here.
[00:18:16] CHELSEY DONN: because I get it. You know what I mean? Like, it's an honor to be nominated. You know, it's just an honor to be nominated. The rest of it is who knows what.
[00:18:26] TREY GERRALD: But like, how many people have been nominated for a Drama Desk Award for a musical? I mean, it's insane. It's like, there are these like seven players who are always produced. How do you write a musical? Period. And then get nominated for a trophy. I mean, it's fucking insane. Regardless, it really is
[00:18:47] CHELSEY DONN: for
[00:18:48] JOE KINOSIAN: you, that's
[00:18:49] TREY GERRALD: Well, Joe, we're glad that you're here and you are officially crowned and inducted into the Queendom. So you are now officially a Review Queen.
[00:18:58] JOE KINOSIAN: the only award that matters,
[00:19:04] CHELSEY DONN: Joe, our most newly crowned Review Queen, I am gonna be reading a review and together you, me, and Trey are going to break it down, rate the impact of the review on a scale from zero to five crowns. It is a very regal process that we call
[00:19:22] VOICEOVER: Assess That Kvetch, Review That
[00:19:24] TREY GERRALD: So Joe, one final question. Are you ready?
[00:19:28] JOE KINOSIAN: yes, bring it,
[00:19:32] VOICEOVER: Review,
[00:19:35] CHELSEY DONN: All right, today we're going to Yelp for this review. This is a place that holds a special place in my heart. I don't know about you, but it is called Marie's Crisis.
[00:19:48] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh yes.
[00:19:49] CHELSEY DONN: is a piano bar in New York City. It's a historic piano bar, according to Google, that draws a crowd of gay locals and musical theater performers in dimly lit digs, which I always think about this place as, yes, being very dimly lit, but then they have those rainbow, like Christmas
[00:20:09] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm-Hmm?
[00:20:10] CHELSEY DONN: It's a vibe, you guys.
[00:20:11] JOE KINOSIAN: It's such a vibe.
[00:20:12] CHELSEY DONN: When I was living in New York, I personally went to this place several times a week, so I'm gonna just go ahead and say that bias out loud before we get started. Maria's Crisis only has three and a half stars. on Yelp. Now, obviously that's not my opinion, right? So this might stop some people from going.
I don't know if this particular review will have that effect. So let's find out together. This is a one star review written by Adam L. of Marie's Crisis Piano Bar in New York City. Here we go. This place is a joke.
[00:20:54] TREY GERRALD: oof,
[00:20:56] CHELSEY DONN: A bunch of vapid and elitist singers. That exemplify what is wrong with the Broadway crowd.
[00:21:08] TREY GERRALD: oh,
[00:21:10] CHELSEY DONN: These sub par chorus actors
[00:21:15] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh,
[00:21:15] CHELSEY DONN: will make you feel bad. For being there, because you're not a regular, This gatekeeping bullshit is ridiculous, The whole time I was there, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, I was just like, Oh, honey, You may be able to carry a tune, But you're still a nobody, end quote, crisis encourages.
This elitist behavior to make sure that they're drunk, unsuccessful, unhappy, musical theater rejects come back day in and day out, it's called stroking their egos.
[00:22:10] JOE KINOSIAN: oh, okay.
[00:22:12] CHELSEY DONN: And it's working, failure leads to drinking, and drinking leads to profit, I came in the bar, a huge musical theater fan, But I came out questioning if I even wanted to like it, What a shame, a place can do this to someone I've loved since a child,
[00:22:44] JOE KINOSIAN: Wow.
[00:22:45] CHELSEY DONN: Do you think this is Adam Lampert? No.
[00:22:49] TREY GERRALD: no one would be rejecting Adam Lambert from singing,
[00:22:52] CHELSEY DONN: I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
[00:22:54] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh my God. Listeners, you need to find a way to see. Chelsey, Read That Review, because her, her body completely changed and you embodied a very angry man. It was great.
[00:23:09] CHELSEY DONN: Thank you, thank you. Little Patreon plug there if you want to see the,
[00:23:14] TREY GERRALD: Body change.
[00:23:16] CHELSEY DONN: performance.
[00:23:18] JOE KINOSIAN: That was so
[00:23:19] TREY GERRALD: so Joe, what are your first, what's there for you? Have you been to Marie's Crisis? You have, yes?
[00:23:24] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh, just a couple of times. I mean,
[00:23:26] TREY GERRALD: Chelsey was like, do you think, do you think that
[00:23:28] CHELSEY DONN: I'm like, I hope that he's been,
[00:23:30] TREY GERRALD: I feel
[00:23:31] CHELSEY DONN: probably been.
[00:23:33] JOE KINOSIAN: I have, I have so many thoughts. I don't know where to begin. I wrote down a few keywords like elitist. Crisis is like the cheapest bar for like 10 square miles.
[00:23:44] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:23:46] JOE KINOSIAN: Unless the drink prices went up since I was last there, I don't think I've been there post lockdown, but I certainly was there in 2019,
[00:23:52] CHELSEY DONN: And also go and get a beer. You don't want to like mess
[00:23:54] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, elitist.
I mean, maybe he's meaning like elitist, like leaving people out,
[00:24:00] TREY GERRALD: thought elitist as in getting able to sing a song, not the
[00:24:05] JOE KINOSIAN: well, you have to
[00:24:06] CHELSEY DONN: tip. Put a tip in the jar.
[00:24:08] JOE KINOSIAN: a tip in the jar and get there early. Like, that's my main thing is like time of day for Marie's crisis. Get, get there when they open.
[00:24:17] CHELSEY DONN: crisis to yourself if you're going to go on a Tuesday night.
[00:24:20] TREY GERRALD: knows.
[00:24:21] JOE KINOSIAN: Correct.
[00:24:22] CHELSEY DONN: knows because she's done it many times.
[00:24:24] JOE KINOSIAN: You can do most of the score of Annie
[00:24:26] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, yeah.
[00:24:27] JOE KINOSIAN: just your friends,
[00:24:28] CHELSEY DONN: done all of Hairspray.
[00:24:30] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, there you
[00:24:30] CHELSEY DONN: woman show, you know?
[00:24:33] JOE KINOSIAN: I mean, uh, it was very funny, especially the way you did it, but like there, there was an, a lot of self hatred in this review. Like this is someone who has some
[00:24:44] CHELSEY DONN: is someone who didn't get cast in the chorus in high school. I'm sorry to say.
[00:24:49] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah. And like you go in there and yeah, it's, it gets really crowded and the floor was last cleaned. Yeah. When Marie ran it, yeah,
[00:24:58] TREY GERRALD: So sticky.
[00:24:59] JOE KINOSIAN: so sticky and it is dark but dark and cheap and loud can be real pluses if you're in the right frame of mind and if you want to, singing the score to Chicago can be such a joyous experience,
[00:25:13] CHELSEY DONN: Agree.
[00:25:15] TREY GERRALD: Well, because I'm sort of getting a story of Adam. Adam keeps separating themselves from the
[00:25:21] CHELSEY DONN: Yes. Good
[00:25:22] TREY GERRALD: So it sounds to me that Adam is a fan of musical theater, heard that was, heard that this is a place to like be amongst them and then really felt alienated. So Uh,
[00:25:36] CHELSEY DONN: And you know what? I want to validate that for one second for Adam
[00:25:40] TREY GERRALD: can
[00:25:41] CHELSEY DONN: I will, I will say that when I first went now, luckily I went with a regular, which I think is a really nice bridge. If you have a friend that goes to Marie's all the time and you're thinking about dappling, go with them because that helps.
But there is this feeling of like, It's sort of like a cheers for gay people and musical theater enthusiasts. So, if you're not in the place where everybody knows your name, you're probably gonna feel uncomfortable until you get over that hump. But I do think that this review has value in the fact that, yeah, there is a little bit of that.
In crowd vibe.
[00:26:22] TREY GERRALD: for
[00:26:22] JOE KINOSIAN: hmm, yeah,
[00:26:23] CHELSEY DONN: think that Adam takes it a little bit far and I don't think that Adam was trying to be funny.
[00:26:30] JOE KINOSIAN: mm hmm, yeah, mm hmm,
[00:26:32] TREY GERRALD: well wait, I want to back up, just for anyone who has, doesn't know what Marie's Crisis is, Marie's Crisis is this tiny, tiny, tiny, little hole in a wall bar that literally has a piano player that has like an extended, like, top that, like, you can put,
[00:26:46] CHELSEY DONN: you can sit
[00:26:47] TREY GERRALD: he's, like, locked inside of this little, like, square The piano player will play scores to musicals.
You can like sing. It's like a loud piano bar. That's really strictly musical theater. I think it is
[00:26:59] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm hmm. Yeah.
[00:27:01] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:27:01] TREY GERRALD: So that's what Marie's crisis is if you don't know what it is, but I did write down the word vapid, which I just Googled just to make sure I was correct.
[00:27:10] JOE KINOSIAN: hmm.
[00:27:10] TREY GERRALD: And the definition from the Oxford Dictionary of vapid
[00:27:14] CHELSEY DONN: Let's hear it.
[00:27:15] TREY GERRALD: offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging and their sentence is, ironically, tuneful but vapid musical comedies.
[00:27:27] JOE KINOSIAN: Wow.
[00:27:29] TREY GERRALD: weird?
[00:27:29] CHELSEY DONN: the example
[00:27:30] TREY GERRALD: their sentence that they
[00:27:32] JOE KINOSIAN: So it's like insubstantial.
[00:27:34] CHELSEY DONN: it say underneath it, like example by Adam L. Like, like he like wrote that sentence. He's like, let me take this to Oxford, you know?
[00:27:44] TREY GERRALD: To your point about humor, I don't know, I also don't think that Adam is intending to be humorous. There's something, it's really kind of, really exceedingly shady to like, sort of a, We, I feel like we crossed over to like, really inappropriate. I mean, it's very funny.
[00:28:02] CHELSEY DONN: What's, what's the Broadway crowd? What do we think that is?
[00:28:06] JOE KINOSIAN: I don't,
[00:28:07] TREY GERRALD: do you define it?
[00:28:08] JOE KINOSIAN: I feel it's not, I don't know. I don't know that it's like people working in theater who go there. It's just people who love it. And I think the love of it is more, it overpowers the vapidity of it.
[00:28:20] CHELSEY DONN: yeah, good word.
[00:28:22] JOE KINOSIAN: But, is that real? Look that one up. Um, yeah, no, y'all are very insightful. I also don't think for the record that he was trying to be funny.
It was like, it definitely came from a place of hurt and being left out, and that's not good for anybody. Yeah.
[00:28:37] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah, it is funny, but I think that that's like a side effect of what feels to be this really intense, ostracized feeling
[00:28:47] TREY GERRALD: And I think that's funny. It lands funny to me because I've actually felt that way at Marie's Crisis.
[00:28:54] CHELSEY DONN: Yes,
[00:28:54] TREY GERRALD: Because I don't I hate karaoke, so it's just a nightmare to begin with. But when you're there and it's super busy, it's really hard to get a song played because there's all of the regulars. But I also recognize I'm a visitor here, so I don't know that I would have such a visceral, like, angry reaction.
[00:29:11] CHELSEY DONN: So at Marie's, are there solos? Yes. Are they usually the waiters who work there? Yes. So, a lot of the songs are sung as a group, right? We're all singing this song together. So where I'm a little bit confused with Adam and him being such a musical theater stan until this moment, as he claims to be, what is he talking about with the gate keeping or the judgment, right?
Of the other people singing like, Oh, you may be able to carry a tune, but you're nobody,
[00:29:43] TREY GERRALD: a chorus actor.
[00:29:45] CHELSEY DONN: what are you getting at? When you go to Marie's Crisis, you're there to sing with everybody and maybe you're going to have to sit through, you know, Janet, who was on Broadway in 1975's
[00:29:58] JOE KINOSIAN: I love her work, love her
[00:30:00] CHELSEY DONN: Love her!
Like Maggie Worth, who is not there anymore, who was there for like a million years, She wore a Canadian tuxedo every single day, in the summer it was Canadian tuxedo with shorts, and the winter was Canadian Tuxedo with pants, either way both stretchy, and I really appreciated it, and the woman, Was a star nowhere, but she was a star at Marie's and I think that if you're going to come to this place with that kind of judgmental attitude, it's sort of interesting that Adam is calling everybody out for being so judgmental when they were probably judgmental about him because he's Sitting there being like, and you, you're a nobody, like, yeah, if this community who is very tight knit and is sort of looking out for each other as sort of rough around the edges as they might be, they're going to sniff that out and no, they're not going to want you in their house.
[00:30:57] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah.
[00:30:58] CHELSEY DONN: I think this is a self fulfilled prophecy for Adam.
[00:31:01] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, I think, Joe, you picked up on that in the first comment. It does feel a lot of, like, self hatred as, like, underlining this. Do you think this is typical? Do you think, like, this is a common experience going there?
[00:31:13] JOE KINOSIAN: I think if you went, I'm curious what time of day or what, what day of the week he went, obviously he went in like later at
[00:31:20] CHELSEY DONN: He must have gone like a
[00:31:22] JOE KINOSIAN: Saturday night. Yeah. And it probably, it was like, They were pulling requests, but there were a lot of requests in the hat already. And the regulars who are there, when they intersperse their songs, they don't even have to ask what that person's going to sing.
Cause Janet always sings Skid Row parentheses downtown.
[00:31:39] CHELSEY DONN: You know it!
[00:31:41] JOE KINOSIAN: so there is that like, uh, preexisting relationship. And I think you have to have a little bit of. Love and respect for the regulars. I think it's like, when you go into a place like that, it's like, it's, it's their home. It's their community. It's almost like you're a straight person going into a gay bar, which in this context, maybe that is exactly what's happening,
[00:32:02] TREY GERRALD: Yes.
[00:32:03] CHELSEY DONN: say.
[00:32:03] JOE KINOSIAN: but like that level of like, okay, I'm visiting, I want, like, I want to respect what's been predetermined already, if that makes sense.
[00:32:12] CHELSEY DONN: Totally. What do we think about the business advice that Adam decides to land at the end? It's working. Failure leads to drinking and drinking leads to profit, like, thank you for that. Where's that coming
[00:32:23] TREY GERRALD: Well, I think we talked about this early on 'cause I don't necessarily think that the people working on Broadway are going to Marie's crisis on a normal basis. So I think the people are there out of joy. They're singing out of joy. I don't think they're singing from a place of failure,
[00:32:37] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm
[00:32:38] TREY GERRALD: in my opinion. But does failure lead to drinking?
Probably.
[00:32:41] CHELSEY DONN: Does drinking lead
[00:32:42] TREY GERRALD: profit? I think so, right.
[00:32:44] CHELSEY DONN: Ah ha!
[00:32:44] TREY GERRALD: very, bars aren't going anywhere.
[00:32:46] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah.
[00:32:47] TREY GERRALD: But that does feel, it does feel emblematic
[00:32:50] CHELSEY DONN: It does, it does feel, yeah, the,
[00:32:52] TREY GERRALD: like an outsider coming in and
[00:32:55] CHELSEY DONN: the outside. Yeah, exactly. That's
[00:32:57] JOE KINOSIAN: sing Waving Through a Window, you'll feel better, Adam.
[00:33:00] CHELSEY DONN: right. I know, I know.
[00:33:02] JOE KINOSIAN: also, this is the road that led him to discover he didn't like musicals. Well, it's a much cheaper road than going to see a show.
[00:33:10] TREY GERRALD: much cheaper than
[00:33:11] CHELSEY DONN: we're getting a BFA. Right.
[00:33:13] TREY GERRALD: Yes.
[00:33:14] JOE KINOSIAN: You got a beer, you probably heard at least one song you liked.
[00:33:19] CHELSEY DONN: relax.
[00:33:20] JOE KINOSIAN: got a Heineken, you got a lifetime of stick on your shoes you will never get off.
[00:33:24] CHELSEY DONN: Oh my God, yes.
[00:33:26] JOE KINOSIAN: But even that I find kind of charming. I don't know if that's weird. I'm partial to this place, so, there you go.
[00:33:32] TREY GERRALD: I know.
[00:33:33] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh Adam, Adam, I hope you're okay.
[00:33:36] TREY GERRALD: do you think Adam was writing this getting an ice cream cone at Big Gay Ice Cream? Just mad
[00:33:41] CHELSEY DONN: think, yeah, I think that he's, he's writing a song called Since a Child, um, at, at Big Gay Ice Cream next door and he's like, Since a child, I had a dream
[00:33:51] JOE KINOSIAN: ha ha ha
[00:33:51] CHELSEY DONN: of dreams and time gone by.
[00:33:55] TREY GERRALD: Alright, so, before we crown, Is there, is this a deal breaker? If reading this, and you're from Milwaukee, and you're excited to go to Marie's Crisis, is this going to have an impact on you? I don't know, I mean If I've never been there and I'm reading reviews of Marie's Crisis,
[00:34:12] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, it's a good question. Because, I mean, I'm a kind of introverted musical theater person, And maybe this would put me off, but I have to, You were saying the reviews are pretty average on The
[00:34:27] CHELSEY DONN: three and a half overall,
[00:34:28] JOE KINOSIAN: bad, that really is too bad, because
[00:34:30] CHELSEY DONN: but also maybe it's good because it keeps the atoms
[00:34:33] TREY GERRALD: But who's writing a review of Marie's Crisis?
[00:34:37] CHELSEY DONN: I should, I really should for all the times I
[00:34:40] JOE KINOSIAN: this kind of makes me want to write one, just saying, they're doing
[00:34:43] CHELSEY DONN: to get that up to a 3. 8, you know?
[00:34:45] TREY GERRALD: gonna have
[00:34:46] JOE KINOSIAN: and they're working so hard, it's a live piano player who can do literally anything you want, really good.
[00:34:51] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, how do you get that
[00:34:53] CHELSEY DONN: and they're talented, they're really talented, you know, like, they have to be so good to be able to play all this music, and,
[00:35:00] JOE KINOSIAN: keys, and they know that when I've had two martinis that you're never fully dressed without a smile has to be slower,
[00:35:06] CHELSEY DONN: right,
[00:35:07] JOE KINOSIAN: know?
[00:35:07] CHELSEY DONN: ah yes, they can adjust the tempo based on how many drinks
[00:35:12] JOE KINOSIAN: Like it turns into like a real strut.
[00:35:15] TREY GERRALD: Alright, I think I could crown
[00:35:17] CHELSEY DONN: okay, let's go, let's go into the crowning, and I'm gonna do a little Maggie Worth impersonation in the after show, so, if that's not a reason to join Patreon, I don't know what is,
[00:35:25] TREY GERRALD: Joe, you ready to
[00:35:26] JOE KINOSIAN: Yes, I'm writing my number really big on marker.
[00:35:30] CHELSEY DONN: okay, perfect,
[00:35:31] TREY GERRALD: So, Chelsey, Joe, and I all have our own set of zero to five crown cards. In an effort to be fair and not influence one another, we will simultaneously reveal our rating.
[00:35:42] VOICEOVER: The Queens are tabulating. Total Score.
[00:35:50] CHELSEY DONN: Okay, Joe and I are unanimous with two crowns, Trey's coming in with one and a half. Joe, you go first. Tell us why you gave two crowns to Adam Lambert, I mean Adam L.
[00:36:01] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, Adam Pascal. Uh, well, um, listening to y'all talk about the exclusionary component boosted it a little bit for me. Cause at first I was like, how dare you come into this semi sacred space.
[00:36:19] CHELSEY DONN: Yes,
[00:36:19] JOE KINOSIAN: With no windows, and no fire escape, and, And tell people that they're not doing it right, When all they're trying to do is express their love, For this horribly marginalized art form,
[00:36:34] CHELSEY DONN: that's right.
[00:36:35] JOE KINOSIAN: But then you think of how musical theater people, As you're saying Trey, can be, can be a little bit like, Uh, you've never heard of the Golden Apple from 1954, Nevermind, you know, or like, can't, can't talk about anything else, So, that boosted it a little bit, and I feel for Adam, and I want Adam to find his tribe, so I, I raised it probably by one, from where it would have been.
[00:36:58] TREY GERRALD: Yeah. I feel it. Chelsey, why did you say two?
[00:37:01] CHELSEY DONN: Very similar reasoning to Joe. There was a part of my heart that just, I think, connected here with Adam and I do feel, I relate to the idea of feeling excluded and I do think there is a little bit of that vibe. So I think that if I did read this review prior to going to Marie's, like, let's say I read A really good five star and I read this, I think it falls somewhere in between those two and I do think there's value there and that was why I went with two crowns, but I do think this is a lot about Adam and not a lot about Marie's and a lot of sort of name throwing and a lot of bullying for someone who's been bullied, so for that reason I couldn't go above two crowns, but I did want to throw them, throw them the two, not quite middle of the road as Trey likes to say, but Trey went with two crowns.
for a full crown below middle of the road with that one and a half, so let us know why.
[00:37:57] TREY GERRALD: So I said one and a half because ultimately I just think it's really mean spirited that there are some truths in here perhaps, but I think they are truths to someone that is.
[00:38:10] JOE KINOSIAN: hmm.
[00:38:11] TREY GERRALD: I also just, the whole assessment of a community of people when you aren't in the community of people just feels icky to me. And saying singers in quotes, like the first sentence or two sentences is like, singers in quotations, like, it's just so shady.
[00:38:28] JOE KINOSIAN: I'm sorry.
[00:38:28] TREY GERRALD: Um, that even so, I, if I agree on some of the points, this would not have, like, a deal breaking impact for me, I would want to read other reviews, so I just said one and a half,
[00:38:39] JOE KINOSIAN: making me rea Can I tell a little anecdote?
[00:38:42] CHELSEY DONN: Yes,
[00:38:43] JOE KINOSIAN: my friend David and I said a long time ago, which is, We said it about gay men, but I think it's actually just true about musical theater fans. We're the only people who can cry while judging, and we saw this high school production of Once on this Island That was perf no.
We've all seen that production, too.
[00:39:05] CHELSEY DONN: Wait, what did you say in my life?
[00:39:07] JOE KINOSIAN: No, Once on this Island. We can talk about in my life forever. That was
[00:39:12] CHELSEY DONN: a shoe pork alone.
[00:39:16] JOE KINOSIAN: So this production of Once on this Island was performed by high schoolers who had survived Hurricane Katrina. So they were, they were amazing. They were so talented. They did a great job and the audience is sobbing start to finish cause you know, it's so emotional that show already. And then you combine it with the fact of who they were.
But then when they sing the song Ti Moune. Uh, the girl playing Ti Moune said, um, now I go without one backward look while she's leaving her parents, right? And she was facing her parents. So I was like, you're talking about not doing a backward look while you're looking backward. So I'm like tears running down my face, but I'm like, that's not what the text
[00:40:01] CHELSEY DONN: my God. That's hilarious.
[00:40:04] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah.
[00:40:04] TREY GERRALD: gonna, you
[00:40:05] CHELSEY DONN: really emotional, but I'm also like, who, what was like,
[00:40:08] JOE KINOSIAN: That's an interesting choice.
[00:40:09] CHELSEY DONN: thinking? What was the director thinking?
[00:40:12] JOE KINOSIAN: If, if you were in that production listening, you did a great job. I was just like a one choice. I would've, you know, had a quibble with
[00:40:19] TREY GERRALD: whoa,
[00:40:19] CHELSEY DONN: That's okay. That's how my mom always was when she would come see me in a show. Everyone will be like, you were so great. She's like, I've noticed the mistake you made, you
[00:40:26] TREY GERRALD: oi, gavolt, wee
[00:40:27] JOE KINOSIAN: God.
[00:40:29] TREY GERRALD: wee oo, wee oo, it's game time!
[00:40:34] CHELSEY DONN: Oh my goodness. Here we go.
[00:40:36] TREY GERRALD: Today I have formulated a one of a kind, never existed before game, specific to Joe. So listeners, you're gonna play along, and we're gonna find out together. Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture? of the game is, Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
So I have selected ten Broadway openings, overtures, first down beats of a musical,
[00:41:08] CHELSEY DONN: I don't stand a chance, I'm just
[00:41:10] TREY GERRALD: and Chelsey is gonna compete against Joe.
[00:41:13] JOE KINOSIAN: you're gonna be great. We're gonna get this
[00:41:16] TREY GERRALD: In full disclosure, some of these songs... Will be a chord. Some of these songs, I think the longest clip I have is 35 seconds. So in fairness,
[00:41:30] JOE KINOSIAN: I'm just kidding. . I dunno.
[00:41:32] TREY GERRALD: I originally had a concept of doing musicals for Joe and doing operas for Chelsea just so that she
[00:41:38] JOE KINOSIAN: Ah,
[00:41:38] TREY GERRALD: Really lose but
[00:41:40] CHELSEY DONN: Chelsea's gonna lose anyway, it's fine.
[00:41:42] TREY GERRALD: Okay. So just in the vein of Adam L If any of our listeners do not know Broadway Overtures from Accord, we're gonna include them in the community so we're gonna let all of the clips play out in their entirety, but When you, Chelsey, when you, Joe, when you, listener, when you know the show you're gonna shout out So, Kinosian! Okay, so that way we'll determine who gets to go first, Chelsey or Joe. And then when the clip ends, I will ask for the answer. If you are incorrect, the other contestant gets a chance to guess,
[00:42:21] CHELSEY DONN: Having heard the whole clip,
[00:42:23] TREY GERRALD: and the other person's guess. So okay, and I'm looking for the name of the show, and
[00:42:30] CHELSEY DONN: Not the composer, I'm never gonna, no, no, no.
[00:42:34] TREY GERRALD: I wasn't gonna say that, I'm looking for the actual title of the track of the
[00:42:39] CHELSEY DONN: no,
[00:42:40] TREY GERRALD: So it needs to be... It
[00:42:42] JOE KINOSIAN: So some are overtures and some are just like openings, opening numbers.
[00:42:47] CHELSEY DONN: Yes.
[00:42:49] TREY GERRALD: So, one more time, we're gonna be playing, Do You Kinosian? This Broadway Overture, or opening of the show. Alright, Chelsey and Joe, are you ready to play? Okay, here we go, number one.
[00:43:08] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian. Oh, one,
[00:43:16] CHELSEY DONN: That was me, I won, I clearly,
[00:43:18] TREY GERRALD: I think it was Chelsey. Chelsey, what is it?
[00:43:21] CHELSEY DONN: okay, um, that was Hairspray, and the song was Good Morning Baltimore,
[00:43:28] JOE KINOSIAN: Woo.
[00:43:28] TREY GERRALD: Chelsey, you are right.
[00:43:31] JOE KINOSIAN: Mark Shaman composer. Can I get partial credit?
[00:43:34] CHELSEY DONN: All those EPAs definitely came in handy,
[00:43:37] JOE KINOSIAN: Can we play this all day? This is like the most fun I've ever had.
[00:43:43] TREY GERRALD: do you know the composer and lyricists?
[00:43:45] CHELSEY DONN: uh, no, I don't know, I don't go that deep, but Joe
[00:43:48] TREY GERRALD: of the game, but Joe, what, who are they?
[00:43:50] JOE KINOSIAN: I know Mark Shaman is the, is it Scott Whitman? Yeah. I know Mark Shaman's composer. Yeah.
[00:43:57] CHELSEY DONN: amazing, I love that, okay,
[00:43:59] TREY GERRALD: Okay, get ready. Here we go. Number two. You ready? Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?
[00:44:06] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinshian!
[00:44:07] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian,
[00:44:27] TREY GERRALD: All right, that was clearly Joe.
[00:44:30] JOE KINOSIAN: That's from the Phantom of the Opera, and I believe that is the overture, but I believe it plays after the little, um, A collector's piece.
[00:44:40] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, there's a scene. Locked 666.
[00:44:44] JOE KINOSIAN: I need to nerd out for a moment. I love that that show starts and with just a long book scene
[00:44:51] TREY GERRALD: I know! Also, it was funny to me compiling these. Oh, wait, you're right.
[00:44:57] CHELSEY DONN: that's correct,
[00:44:58] TREY GERRALD: Because the, just the like synthesizer sound is such a giveaway.
[00:45:03] JOE KINOSIAN: oh totally it's of the era
[00:45:05] TREY GERRALD: we're tied. You both have a correct. So here we go. Number three. Wait, really?
[00:45:22] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian, is it? Is it, um, is it Peter
[00:45:27] TREY GERRALD: have any? Are you guessing?
[00:45:30] CHELSEY DONN: Is it Peter Pan?
[00:45:31] TREY GERRALD: ends if you're guessing.
[00:45:32] CHELSEY DONN: I'm guessing. I'll guess Peter Pan. Okay. Joe,
[00:45:39] TREY GERRALD: Joe, I'm gonna, do you want a hint?
[00:45:42] JOE KINOSIAN: i would love a hint i don't think i get it though
[00:45:45] TREY GERRALD: Well, I don't know how
[00:45:46] CHELSEY DONN: just play it. You want to just play it again?
[00:45:48] TREY GERRALD: it one more time, and just think, this is produced a lot,
[00:46:00] CHELSEY DONN: I have a second guess.
[00:46:02] JOE KINOSIAN: forever plaid no
[00:46:05] CHELSEY DONN: the nut? Is it the Nutcracker? Oh, geez, Louise.
[00:46:13] TREY GERRALD: let me do, let me do another hint, it's the same composer as Phantom of the Opera,
[00:46:17] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, Little Night Music? Oh,
[00:46:24] JOE KINOSIAN: an andrew lloyd weber show Uh, Whistle Down the Wind,
[00:46:33] TREY GERRALD: What was Andrew Lloyd Webber's first musical?
[00:46:36] JOE KINOSIAN: Joseph? Joseph was his first.
[00:46:41] VOICEOVER: you for watching!
[00:46:43] CHELSEY DONN: It's Joseph.
[00:46:44] TREY GERRALD: Some folks dream of the wonders they'll do,
[00:46:47] JOE KINOSIAN: I only know the 1968 first recording, the one where Quentin Blake of Roald Dahl fame did the illustrations, so I, uh, I should know that. So Trey, you're right. That, that smirk you're giving me is correct.
[00:47:04] TREY GERRALD: I just thought, I, I love that you guys didn't know it, I thought it was really obvious, which is why I made it three, because I thought it would be too
[00:47:11] CHELSEY DONN: I mean, you thought it'd be obvious. You remember the Little Bow Wow Woman? I mean, did you think that all of a sudden I was going to become a new human?
[00:47:18] TREY GERRALD: All right, here we go. So this one,
[00:47:21] JOE KINOSIAN: yeah, yeah, go ahead.
[00:47:22] TREY GERRALD: yes, Jacob and Sons.
[00:47:23] JOE KINOSIAN: Jacob and Sons is the first
[00:47:25] TREY GERRALD: four. Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?
[00:47:31] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian!
[00:47:34] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, I think, I know, I think I can it now, but Joe beat me obviously.
[00:47:40] VOICEOVER: The
Star Spangled Banner
[00:47:57] TREY GERRALD: All right, Joe, you were, you got it. What do you think it is?
[00:48:01] JOE KINOSIAN: I believe it is Les Misérables, um, but is the song called Look Down or is it?
[00:48:09] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah, I think it's looked
[00:48:10] TREY GERRALD: tough.
[00:48:11] JOE KINOSIAN: Is it? Yeah.
[00:48:12] TREY GERRALD: it's not. It's called Overture, Work Song.
[00:48:15] JOE KINOSIAN: Work song.
[00:48:16] CHELSEY DONN: works, but still I,
[00:48:18] TREY GERRALD: But then in some, they also call it a prologue, like in the libretto, but not on the track. So we're just gonna, you knew it was Les
[00:48:25] CHELSEY DONN: That was a point for Joe. That's two to one. I got there, but not, not as fast as Kian.
[00:48:31] TREY GERRALD: here we go. This one, this one is, well, we'll see. I don't know. Here we go.
[00:48:36] CHELSEY DONN: Oh God. Okay.
[00:48:37] TREY GERRALD: Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:48:40] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian.
[00:48:42] CHELSEY DONN: Already?
[00:48:44] JOE KINOSIAN: Sorry. Yeah, I know. I'd know that D5 to a C major 7 anywhere.
[00:48:49] TREY GERRALD: Alright, what is it?
[00:48:51] JOE KINOSIAN: That is into the woods.
[00:48:53] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, I'm
[00:48:53] JOE KINOSIAN: And that is,
[00:48:54] CHELSEY DONN: Woods fan, I'm sorry to say.
[00:48:56] JOE KINOSIAN: oh, you're not? Okay.
[00:48:57] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:48:58] JOE KINOSIAN: Uh, I.
[00:48:59] CHELSEY DONN: it's controversial.
[00:49:00] JOE KINOSIAN: um, pros and cons for sure, because, you know, it does have some lines that really wishes are children, but, you know, it's, it's got a lot of good stuff.
[00:49:08] TREY GERRALD: Wait, that, Mark Tuminelli, friend of the pod, that's his, he like cringes at that,
[00:49:14] JOE KINOSIAN: It's a tough lyric for a song. Yeah, it's a little, it's a little corny.
[00:49:19] TREY GERRALD: Okay, here we go.
[00:49:20] CHELSEY DONN: That was so good, though, my God.
[00:49:22] JOE KINOSIAN: know. I believe it's called prologue,
[00:49:26] TREY GERRALD: You're
[00:49:26] CHELSEY DONN: doubt.
[00:49:27] JOE KINOSIAN: classic title, you know,
[00:49:29] TREY GERRALD: Okay, here we go. Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:49:36] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian? Kinosian.
[00:49:41] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian,
[00:49:53] TREY GERRALD: Sadly, Joe went into the original choreography instead of saying the word
[00:49:57] JOE KINOSIAN: I forget.
[00:49:59] TREY GERRALD: So, um, Chelsey, you got it. What do you think that
[00:50:02] CHELSEY DONN: That's, that's, that's Fiddler. That's Fiddler on the Roof.
[00:50:05] JOE KINOSIAN: Yes, yes. The literal
[00:50:07] TREY GERRALD: song called?
[00:50:09] CHELSEY DONN: Overture. Fiddler, the fiddler on the roof. It's okay. I got the point. Tradition!
[00:50:19] TREY GERRALD: Okay, here we
[00:50:20] CHELSEY DONN: Tradition! Thank you.
[00:50:22] TREY GERRALD: All right. So, oh, Chelsey, you're doing so much better than I thought. so proud of you.
[00:50:27] CHELSEY DONN: That's only because Joe broke into the choreography and hadn't had a moment.
[00:50:31] JOE KINOSIAN: How can you hear that and not
[00:50:33] CHELSEY DONN: I know, I
[00:50:34] JOE KINOSIAN: bottle dance?
[00:50:35] CHELSEY DONN: know. Dun dun dun dun dun.
[00:50:37] TREY GERRALD: All right, here we go. Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:50:44] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, Kinosian.
[00:51:06] TREY GERRALD: Alright,
[00:51:07] CHELSEY DONN: Last Five Years.
[00:51:09] TREY GERRALD: Chelsey. Chelsey! Whoa!
[00:51:12] CHELSEY DONN: Jason Robert Brown.
[00:51:13] TREY GERRALD: Have you ever heard of The Last Five Years, Joe?
[00:51:15] JOE KINOSIAN: No.
[00:51:16] TREY GERRALD: Oh, what is that called? What's that called, Chelsey? What's the track called?
[00:51:20] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, God. I'm really bad with the name of songs. I will always... Oh. Dun dun dun
[00:51:26] TREY GERRALD: Okay guys,
[00:51:27] JOE KINOSIAN: Jamie is over and Jamie is gone. That one. Yeah.
[00:51:31] TREY GERRALD: so we have,
[00:51:32] JOE KINOSIAN: show very well.
[00:51:33] CHELSEY DONN: to move on.
[00:51:35] JOE KINOSIAN: Trey, we're singing. I know you're trying to play the game, but there's a song
[00:51:37] CHELSEY DONN: there's a song happening. It's we, I mean, we just talked about Marie's. How come we not,
[00:51:43] TREY GERRALD: Okay, so we have three more, plus... Plus a tiebreaker. So here we go.
[00:51:49] JOE KINOSIAN: We're neck and
[00:51:50] CHELSEY DONN: You're gonna win. You're gonna win.
[00:51:52] TREY GERRALD: Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:51:56] VOICEOVER: I'm Joe Kinosian, I'll see you in the next video.
[00:52:23] CHELSEY DONN: So pretty. I like the end.
[00:52:25] TREY GERRALD: Joe, do you know?
[00:52:27] JOE KINOSIAN: I believe that's Oklahoma.
[00:52:29] CHELSEY DONN: Oh,
[00:52:30] TREY GERRALD: Very good, Joe.
[00:52:31] JOE KINOSIAN: The first like couple measures could have been literally any origin. It's like
[00:52:36] CHELSEY DONN: man. For a second. I didn't know where we
[00:52:38] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, very traditional.
[00:52:40] JOE KINOSIAN: unspecific. Yes. Oh, it's, uh, those are the days when they could afford orchestras.
[00:52:45] CHELSEY DONN: know. Wasn't that so
[00:52:46] JOE KINOSIAN: of
[00:52:47] CHELSEY DONN: That was, that was gorgeous.
[00:52:49] TREY GERRALD: All right.
[00:52:50] JOE KINOSIAN: love it.
[00:52:51] TREY GERRALD: Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:52:54] JOE KINOSIAN: The face. Oh, uh, Kinosian,
[00:53:02] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, it's, I know, Kinosian.
[00:53:07] VOICEOVER: My
[00:53:16] TREY GERRALD: All right, Joe, you were first.
[00:53:18] JOE KINOSIAN: The Producers,
[00:53:19] CHELSEY DONN: it's just probably Overture, right? Because it was like a bunch of the, I heard Springtime for Hitler in there.
[00:53:24] TREY GERRALD: Also, I really struggled with, um, Good Morning Baltimore because there actually is an overture that is not on the cast recording. That
[00:53:32] JOE KINOSIAN: there is,
[00:53:33] TREY GERRALD: that leads into the beginning of Good Morning Baltimore, but it's
[00:53:37] JOE KINOSIAN: don't even remember that from seeing the play,
[00:53:39] TREY GERRALD: It's like,
[00:53:40] JOE KINOSIAN: couple seconds,
[00:53:41] TREY GERRALD: and it's more or less the same.
[00:53:42] CHELSEY DONN: interesting.
[00:53:43] TREY GERRALD: All right, here we go. Here is our final one of the main round Now, get ready, cause, just get ready, it's the last one on purpose,
[00:53:52] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, no. Okay. That
[00:53:54] JOE KINOSIAN: scared,
[00:53:59] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian,
[00:54:02] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian, if it's what I think it is.
[00:54:07] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian. Yeah, for sure. I
[00:54:09] JOE KINOSIAN: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:54:13] VOICEOVER: Outro For My 20th Birthday
[00:54:13] TREY GERRALD: alright, well, Chelsey, you were first,
[00:54:16] CHELSEY DONN: so I think this is Chicago. I'm wrong!
[00:54:21] JOE KINOSIAN: You're so close though. You're like a couple letters off.
[00:54:25] TREY GERRALD: you're so close, alright, Joe, you did
[00:54:27] CHELSEY DONN: oh, wait, what was I wrong?
[00:54:29] JOE KINOSIAN: should get half a point for that because that's the same composer as Cabaret.
[00:54:33] CHELSEY DONN: it's Kevin Ray,
[00:54:36] JOE KINOSIAN: from Cabaret.
[00:54:37] TREY GERRALD: yes,
[00:54:37] CHELSEY DONN: okay, okay, all right, well, at least I got the same composer,
[00:54:41] TREY GERRALD: you don't get a point,
[00:54:42] CHELSEY DONN: that's okay, I didn't give myself
[00:54:44] TREY GERRALD: you're not our guest, alright, here we are, so, ironically, Chelsey has three, and Joe has six, but, this is the tiebreaker,
[00:54:55] JOE KINOSIAN: But this is for the game.
[00:54:56] TREY GERRALD: This is for the game, so this is actually worth 10 points,
[00:55:00] JOE KINOSIAN: my God.
[00:55:01] CHELSEY DONN: well, okay,
[00:55:03] TREY GERRALD: could win, you ready?
[00:55:04] CHELSEY DONN: yeah,
[00:55:05] JOE KINOSIAN: Yes. Kinosian.
[00:55:16] CHELSEY DONN: is this your show?
[00:55:18] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah. I
[00:55:18] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian, because I know how his brain works,
[00:55:42] TREY GERRALD: Alright Joe, you were first,
[00:55:44] JOE KINOSIAN: believe that's Murder for Two, the Drama Desk nominated hit of several years back.
[00:55:50] CHELSEY DONN: gonna say that's insider baseball, but I'll allow it.
[00:55:53] TREY GERRALD: no, so Joe, what is that titled?
[00:55:59] JOE KINOSIAN: It's Prelude, right? Prelude and Waiting in the Dark?
[00:56:03] TREY GERRALD: Just Prelude. So why is it, so what is a prelude? Why not an overture or a prologue? What is a prelude?
[00:56:10] JOE KINOSIAN: well because an overture is definitionally taking parts from other songs and our prelude was like, you know, it's before the like show really gets going, but it's, it's, it was an original thing. It uses at the very end the piece of another song, but it's mostly, um, original.
[00:56:30] TREY GERRALD: Well Joe, a huge sweep here, yeah, a real landslide.
[00:56:35] JOE KINOSIAN: Stevie Nicks!
[00:56:38] TREY GERRALD: Congratulations, Joe! You are the winner!
[00:56:43] JOE KINOSIAN: I'm honored. Chelsey, you did great. You
[00:56:46] CHELSEY DONN: you. I do, you know, I feel like prouder of myself than I thought I would at the end of this, I will say. I don't think it completely embarrassed myself and my family.
[00:56:53] JOE KINOSIAN: No. No.
[00:56:54] TREY GERRALD: I do have one final question, though. So I chose the prelude, so let's not speak, and I just want to play it for a second, because I have a question for you.
[00:57:03] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, okay.
[00:57:41] TREY GERRALD: Okay, I think it's so funny, but it's music. How do you do that,
[00:57:48] JOE KINOSIAN: My God, thank you. That is the absolute best compliment I could get on that, because that was exactly the idea, is to set up that this is a zany show, but set up that the two actors are really gonna play well for you and, like, have a lot, um, the music is gonna factor in very... heavily, but it was just really funny to me that, that the one actor would have all the, all the complicated stuff high up on the piano and the other would just play one single note in response, like, like a very unhelpful scene partner, just meh.
And so, you know, he tries playing really quietly and sweetly and the other guy bangs on the piano and then he plays really loud and the other one does like a real soft one. And I was also thinking of like, what would be fun to act? Cause even as a, when I'm thinking musically, I'm still thinking like an actor.
Because that person is on stage, they're still helping tell the story, no matter what. And so I was like, it would be funny to make faces while you were doing something like that.
[00:58:42] TREY GERRALD: and when did that piece get developed? Was the show sort of formed already, or was that the first thing?
[00:58:50] JOE KINOSIAN: no, it was, um, so we had the world premiere in Chicago, and then it was added when we came to New York, and it was actually, can I drop a little bit of a name?
[00:59:00] CHELSEY DONN: always.
[00:59:01] TREY GERRALD: Was it Sondheim?
[00:59:03] JOE KINOSIAN: No, it wasn't. Although he did say he liked it. Uh,
[00:59:07] CHELSEY DONN: Oh,
[00:59:08] JOE KINOSIAN: I wasn't there, but I heard. No, um, it was Stephen Schwartz of Wicked fame, who
[00:59:13] CHELSEY DONN: Oh,
[00:59:13] TREY GERRALD: his son directed, right?
[00:59:14] JOE KINOSIAN: his son directed it.
Yep. Uh, Scott Schwartz directed it. And, um, Stephen Schwartz came to a preview and was like, I really liked the first song, but I feel like it doesn't demonstrate virtuosic piano playing and could you do something that starts it off that was like virtuosic, would that just like give the audience more of an understanding of the show?
So the assignment was just Exciting, complicated, like, Grieg esque, complex piano music, and then I was like, oh, let's also, like, think of what they're doing and, like, how physically that could be funny, because the show ends with a very physical piano thing that's just playing too,
[00:59:52] CHELSEY DONN: So cool.
[00:59:53] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, thanks, that's really sweet of you, Trey, thank you for
[00:59:56] CHELSEY DONN: So, so captivating from the second it starts. I love it.
[01:00:01] JOE KINOSIAN: I also like, one of my favorite quotes about music, I know we're going
[01:00:04] TREY GERRALD: No,
[01:00:05] JOE KINOSIAN: you'll, you'll love this, is a critic asked Adi DeFranco, where her, her guitar voice came from, like her jangly, dee da da da dum bum bum, dee da, like that, sort of like, and she said it was from playing piano bars. That she loved to be really loud and then go completely silent because that was the only thing that shut the crowd up. Yeah, and so I was also like the idea of like playing something like you heard really loud and then a lot of pause just to like make people self conscious and shut up and pay attention.
[01:00:35] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah. That's so smart.
[01:00:37] TREY GERRALD: and when you listen to it, because I saw the show multiple times in person, but when you listen to the cast recording, just the, it's so funny, even without seeing the physical comedy or the character interplay, you just get, it's like, fabulous. Like it, it plays
[01:00:56] JOE KINOSIAN: Never takes itself seriously. Yeah, totally.
[01:01:00] CHELSEY DONN: Wow.
[01:01:00] TREY GERRALD: this has truly been so much fun.
[01:01:03] CHELSEY DONN: fun.
[01:01:04] TREY GERRALD: whole rigmarole is not gonna end here. We are gonna pop over to Patreon, but Joe, thank you so much for joining us today. We love you so dearly. Thank you for helping build credibility for our podcast by giving us such an amazing theme song. I mean it really It was one of the most repeated bits of compliment that we, I got when we first started, it was like, holy shit, because it's the first thing you hear,
[01:01:29] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[01:01:30] TREY GERRALD: you can all follow Joe on Instagram, this is an update,
[01:01:34] JOE KINOSIAN: it's new.
[01:01:36] CHELSEY DONN: Whoo.
[01:01:38] TREY GERRALD: Kinzo, that's J-O-E-K-I-N-Z-O.
You could listen to the podcast. Let's start a coup exclamation mark on all of the podcast players that exist. Listeners, if you are interested and you would like to license Murder for Two at a theater near you, you can obtain the performance right. at concordtheatricals. com. To learn more about Joe and his frequent writing partner that I personally love, Kellan Blair, you can visit kinosianandblair.
com. Joe, are there any projects, any things on the horizon that you could maybe tease or not tease?
[01:02:12] JOE KINOSIAN: Everything is very nebulous. As I told you, um, I did a musical called, It Came From Outer Space, premiered at Chicago Shakespeare last summer, and there will hopefully be another production of that, uh, somewhere wonderful, uh, before too long, but it's definitely, you know, in, in the works. See Murder for Two if it's in your city.
[01:02:32] TREY GERRALD: Yes.
[01:02:34] CHELSEY DONN: sure. Well, okay. Before we jump over onto our Patreon, Joe, we like to ask our guests one final question. What is one piece of advice you'd give on how to manage and handle online haters?
[01:02:46] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh, put down your phone and read a book, honest to God,
[01:02:51] CHELSEY DONN: Get them out.
[01:02:52] JOE KINOSIAN: I read a book called Stolen Focus, and it's just basically about how dangerous the habit of a smartphone can be, and it really inspired me to like, okay, definitely got to like, continue the uphill climb because I want to, I want to look at it right now, you know, but the uphill climb of like focusing and getting your focus back and, um, using your time for you and not for what you think you should be doing, which is.
Wasting time.
[01:03:20] CHELSEY DONN: Love that.
[01:03:21] JOE KINOSIAN: No judgment, but cause you know, we're all, we're all in this together. But, uh, yeah, that was very inspiring.
[01:03:26] CHELSEY DONN: true. It's so true because we feel like the whole world exists on our smartphones because we're on them all the time, but the reality is it doesn't and there's life outside of your smartphone and I'm not quoting Avenue Q, you know?
[01:03:40] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh, there you go.
[01:03:42] TREY GERRALD: But, but I appreciate your point of view in the world of creating with both sides being true of valuing and not valuing reviews and opinions and how it doesn't stop you from creating because that can stop a lot of people but it hasn't stopped you which is very inspiring.
[01:03:58] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, thank you. I mean, uh, uh, there's that Warhol quote about make art and then while people are talking about it, make more art. And that's a good guideline. It's like there, people are going to say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and just,
[01:04:11] CHELSEY DONN: love that quote.
[01:04:14] TREY GERRALD: Well we did it Queens, that is another round on the RUARQ Ferris Wheel of RUARQ. Did you get it? I did the, I did the prelude.
[01:04:25] JOE KINOSIAN: yeah, oh no. I got it.
[01:04:26] CHELSEY DONN: If you like what you heard, please tell a friend.
[01:04:29] TREY GERRALD: If you did not like what you heard, please tell an enemy.
[01:04:32] CHELSEY DONN: On this week's After Show Pod, we are diving deeper with Joe as we rate and review a one star review he personally received. Ignore
[01:04:42] TREY GERRALD: Uh oh.
[01:04:44] JOE KINOSIAN: Can't wait.
[01:04:45] TREY GERRALD: And Joe is also going to take a spin on the Meryl Go Round. And somehow, this got said.
[01:04:53] JOE KINOSIAN: These are your Review Queens!
[01:04:59] TREY GERRALD: And as always, remember,
[01:05:02] CHELSEY DONN: the haters! You're a queen! Oh, Manga,
[01:05:05] TREY GERRALD: gender non specific, Queen. Buh bye!
[01:05:08] JOE KINOSIAN: Bye.
[01:05:11] VOICEOVER: Sign up directly on Apple Podcast to hear our weekly members only after show unlock additional benefits when you become a Patreon member@reviewthatreview.com slash patreon. Follow us on all the socials at the review queens and join our mailing list@reviewthatreview.com. Arc vetch line is open 24 7 at 1 8 5 0 review zero.
Don't be a ogana. Call the kvetch line today.
[01:05:37] TREY GERRALD: Oh my god.
[01:05:38] JOE KINOSIAN: Delightful. Y'all are such pros.
[01:05:43] CHELSEY DONN: You're
[01:05:43] JOE KINOSIAN: so fun.
[01:05:44] CHELSEY DONN: kidding me?
[01:05:45] JOE KINOSIAN: I seriously wanted that game to never end. I was like, can this go on forever?
[01:05:50] TREY GERRALD: I still cannot believe that Joseph stumped you. Your name is Joe.
[01:05:54] JOE KINOSIAN: I know, but like, I, I know an earlier version that starts with dun, dun, dun, da, ba, ba, da, ba,
[01:05:59] TREY GERRALD: Okay, it's interesting you say that because I obviously wanted to do West Side Story, but
[01:06:04] CHELSEY DONN: duh nuh
[01:06:05] TREY GERRALD: is a, there are two different,
[01:06:07] CHELSEY DONN: nuh nuh! That
[01:06:09] TREY GERRALD: The original Broadway musical is different than the film, and I think of,
[01:06:15] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah.
[01:06:15] CHELSEY DONN: Oh.
[01:06:16] TREY GERRALD: original overture is different. So it's like, I'm just, I'm not getting into the weeds.
And then I guess I picked the fucking wrong Joseph one.
[01:06:22] CHELSEY DONN: Ok, listen, Joe still massacred this game, ok? Do we need to give him more of a lead?
[01:06:29] TREY GERRALD: True.
Review That Review is an independent podcast. Certain names have been redacted or changed to protect the guilty. Executive produced by Trey Gerrald and Chelsey Donn with editing and sound designed by me with voiceover talents by Eva Kaminsky. Our cover art was designed by LogoVora and our theme song was written by Joe Kinosian and sung by Natalie Weiss.
Photo by Girl with red hat on Unsplash