Review That Review with Chelsey & Trey
Episode 180: "RE-VIEW: Guest of Honor, Joe Kinosian (from Ep 128)"
Transcription
*Please pardon any and all spelling errors!
[00:00:00] TREY GERRALD: Dun N N DUN. Babies! It's time to Review Review That Review, Episode 128, which aired on November 15th of 2023. What was that beautiful ditty I was just singing? Well, obviously it's the masterpiece written by Joe Kinosian. And today's review is one of our most favorite Guest of Honor episodes where we got a lot of insight from our guest, Joe Kinosian. Enjoy, and don't forget to give us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and share with a very beloved friend.
[00:00:36] THEME SONG: Everybody's got an opinion.
Every Californian and Virginian.
It's so hard to tell who to trust and who to ignore.
Someone's gotta settle the score.
Trey and Chelsey will help you choose!
Whose views win, which ones lose.
Online haters are comin' for you!
Baby, it's time to Review That Review!
[00:01:03] CHELSEY DONN: Hello
[00:01:06] TREY GERRALD: Oh my god, hello and welcome to Review That Review. We are the podcast that is dedicated to reviewing
[00:01:17] TREY GERRALD: That is Chelsey Donn.
[00:01:19] CHELSEY DONN: And that is Trey Gerald.
[00:01:22] TREY GERRALD: And when we come together, we are
[00:01:24] CHELSEY DONN: the Review Queens. Y'all, we are so excited and happy today because this week we've got a very special guest. We have a special guest of honor. So
[00:01:42] TREY GERRALD: every so often, we'd love to invite a special guest of honor onto the show to share some of their experiences dealing with online reviews from their unique position.
[00:01:57] CHELSEY DONN: With their expertise, we have them don their Review Queen crown and help us inspect the an online review.
[00:02:05] TREY GERRALD: And today, you guys, we have Joe Kinosian!
[00:02:14] VOICEOVER: Joe, we did it!
[00:02:16] CHELSEY DONN: Joe is the writer and composer of and frequent performer in the musical Murder for Two, which won Chicago's Jeff Award for Best New Musical and earned Joe a Jeff Award nomination for Best Leading Actor before opening Off Broadway. The Off Broadway production of Murder for Two earned, what, a Drama Desk Drama League and Outer Critics Circle Award nominations and went on to a two year national tour.
[00:02:46] CHELSEY DONN: Murder for Two has since been performed all around the country as well as internationally in Japan, Korea, England, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, and Australia.
[00:03:00] TREY GERRALD: Joe also wrote and composed the musical It Came From Outer Space with longtime writing partner Kellen Blair, which had its world premiere in Chicago last summer and will hopefully be seen again soon, wink wink.
[00:03:14] TREY GERRALD: Joe was also the writer composer and performed 15 historical characters on history comedy podcast Let's Start a Coup. Exclamation mark. Which is an iHeartMedia original, excuse me. As an actor, Joe's performed regionally in plays like An Act of God and his dream role, the title character in The Nerd. Joe also does the best Miss Piggy impression beside of Frank Oz, which we're going to have to hear a little later.
[00:03:43] TREY GERRALD: But all of you listeners definitely know the name Joe Kinosian. Subs by www. zeoranger. co. uk for his work as the composer and lyricist of our very own theme song!
[00:03:51] CHELSEY DONN: That's right! I mean, how could we be more in your debt?
[00:03:57] VOICEOVER: I mean, every,
[00:03:58] CHELSEY DONN: every single time I listen to that song, I get excited and it's my show, which is, I don't know what that says about me, but like, I love it so much and I'm so grateful for you.
[00:04:07] CHELSEY DONN: Like, I felt a
[00:04:08] TREY GERRALD: little nervous because we always dance to the song. Yeah, having Joe in the room, I felt nervous. Anyway, that was a long time for Joe to sit quietly. So without further ado, we've got to welcome our very special guest of honor, Mr.
[00:04:22] JOE KINOSIAN: Joe Kinosian. I'm so happy to be here. And, um, yeah, I love that song too.
[00:04:30] JOE KINOSIAN: We had, we danced to it while we were in the recording room with, uh, with Natalie.
[00:04:35] TREY GERRALD: Yes. Oh,
[00:04:36] JOE KINOSIAN: incredible. What? Wait,
[00:04:37] TREY GERRALD: so let's go back to 20. Um, what was that? 2021, maybe? Yeah. And what was your thought when we reached out to you? And, and what did you think?
[00:04:47] JOE KINOSIAN: No, I was so excited. And I feel like what inspired the song was the cover art because you had that first.
[00:04:56] VOICEOVER: Yeah. And you
[00:04:56] JOE KINOSIAN: sent me that, you know, that beautiful, it's like black with the neon. And I was like, Oh, that looks like very sort of. 80s LA like palm trees and sunsets and it was like I thought of the band the cardigans you know of fame so I was like that sort of like surfy 80s vibe It's amazing. It's
[00:05:20] CHELSEY DONN: so good.
[00:05:21] CHELSEY DONN: I just still remember listening to the first ever recording that you sang, and I was obsessed. Like, even, I mean, obviously, Natalie brings the like, all the sparkle and the glitter and the riffs, but I just will never ever forget that moment of listening to that recording. So thank you so much for this beautiful.
[00:05:40] CHELSEY DONN: Trey.
[00:05:41] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah. Do we thank you're so welcome and I'm I'm honored to have done it and to be here But you know Trey what we should have pulled up is you remember you sent me like your lyrical idea brainstorm Yes And it was kind of the shape of what the song became but it was like just like phrases much
[00:05:59] TREY GERRALD: better.
[00:06:00] TREY GERRALD: You're much better Patreon members will know that we Maybe six episodes ago, reviewed for a 100th after show, one of our dress rehearsals, and it was us playing that demo recording. So if you're on Patreon, you actually get to hear Joe's demo. So
[00:06:16] CHELSEY DONN: fun.
[00:06:16] TREY GERRALD: But Joe, we're so glad that you're here. And we want to like get into the nitty gritty of reviews.
[00:06:20] TREY GERRALD: So we're curious from your point of view, as someone who has created musicals from the ground up, And as someone who is a performer, who gets constantly critiqued and reviewed, like how do reviews affect you as a creator, as an artist, all of that?
[00:06:35] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, you know, you, you don't want to give them as much credit as you sort of have to.
[00:06:44] JOE KINOSIAN: And I'm thinking of, That, you know, there's the professional reviews, like the ones in the papers, and then there's the, you know, just the people who are talking online. And I feel like I've gotten pretty good at ignoring people online. I just try to stay away from the comments or, you know, have if friends have like read the comments, like, I can ask them, were they good or should I stay away from this one?
[00:07:04] JOE KINOSIAN: But yeah, but, but the, the critics on the papers, I think you just have to, they're serving their purpose. And so you were saying I've gotten musicals from the ground up and I have twice, but in between those two were six that never even went anywhere. So it's like the act of getting the one all the way to the stage and then just have some critic be like, I didn't really see what they were going for.
[00:07:29] JOE KINOSIAN: It's just like, It can be so demoralizing. So
[00:07:31] CHELSEY DONN: yeah,
[00:07:32] JOE KINOSIAN: generally try to stay away and then also try to tell myself they have a purpose, even if that doesn't necessarily apply to the work you're doing or trying to do.
[00:07:41] TREY GERRALD: Can you feel a distinction between The madness of voices online versus the professional critics paid for a newspaper
[00:07:50] CHELSEY DONN: like a New York Times type article
[00:07:52] JOE KINOSIAN: you know, my knee jerk is certain things I've done that have gotten like like really positive comments from people online and sometimes the The masses are more positive, weirdly.
[00:08:06] JOE KINOSIAN: We wouldn't necessarily think of that where I think professional critics have to maintain some level of, uh, dispassionate disconnect. Like they have to be a little bit too cool to, you know, just heap praise on something because it's rare that, you know, they do that overwhelmingly.
[00:08:24] VOICEOVER: And
[00:08:24] JOE KINOSIAN: I think for me too, like I write silly stuff.
[00:08:27] JOE KINOSIAN: I'm putting silly stuff on stage, like hopefully well crafted, well executed, silly stuff. But like, That's not necessarily fodder for the critics to like, you know, lose their minds, except for, uh, the New York Times did really like Murder for Two, but that's, you know, that's just a separate thing. Well, and that felt really good, which is like, I feel like I shouldn't say that, but then we heard that review and obviously they were, you know, quoting it in the papers and every or on the poster rather.
[00:08:52] JOE KINOSIAN: And that was like, uh, I'd be lying if I said that wasn't like, Oh my God.
[00:08:56] TREY GERRALD: Did the Times review it when it was in Chicago? No, um, the Times just reviewed it when it was in New York. So, what was that process from the overwhelming response in Chicago to how many years passed before it transferred, or before it went to Off Broadway?
[00:09:16] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, interestingly enough, this is actually very applicable to what we were saying. The reviews, when we opened in Chicago, were not super positive. We were supposed to run for five weeks. And I remember after the reviews came out, particularly one, uh, famous Chicago paper that shall remain nameless, but was featured heavily in the sitcom, Perfect Strangers.
[00:09:36] JOE KINOSIAN: Uh, that like the audiences were, there were like 20 people there the night after that. And I was like, Oh, so, you know, They got us, like, we're done, but people who came and saw the show liked it and started posting about it on TripAdvisor, of all things, love
[00:09:53] CHELSEY DONN: that,
[00:09:53] JOE KINOSIAN: and it started to climb the ranks of TripAdvisor, and then at one point during the summer, we were like above the aquarium, and I almost wanted to write in, like, you should go like, Or do
[00:10:05] CHELSEY DONN: both, like, do both.
[00:10:07] CHELSEY DONN: We're not competing with the aquarium, but I think that that's an interesting point, and I think it's something that came up a little while ago when the whole Martin Short article came out that was really damning, and then the public and the internet and whatever you want to call it, Was really able to come to his defense.
[00:10:25] CHELSEY DONN: And I do think that's sort of fascinating. Like so often we look at these reviews on the internet as these trolls and horrible haters, as we say in our song, but the opposite also exists, right? Like, Like you said, you got this bad review, but the public made it so much more popular than it was able to transfer off Broadway.
[00:10:46] CHELSEY DONN: So screw that guy, right? So there is something interesting about that balance,
[00:10:51] TREY GERRALD: I think, especially in the culture we're moving into, because now you go see a Broadway show and they literally have poll quotes that are like, Twitter user handles. Like it's not even Brantley. Well, it's not going to be Brantley, but like we are in a culture where oftentimes the, like all of these huge record breaking Broadway musicals, like were almost universally reviewed very poorly.
[00:11:16] TREY GERRALD: It's like the crowds that love them.
[00:11:18] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, no, I was thinking about we have seemingly all forgotten Wicked opened right when I moved to New York and Wicked got really lack to reviews, like Average is best and that's of that amazing 2003 season. Like all those iconic shows that have stayed with us and Taboo, which was a lot of fun.
[00:11:38] JOE KINOSIAN: Uh, Yes. Like. Wicked's the one still doing like, still standing, yeah,
[00:11:43] CHELSEY DONN: and they recouped their money like faster than I think any other Broadway show, like they broke so many records, I do wonder if a part of that is because that time being like the advent of Facebook and this sort of social media, social influence world, Yeah,
[00:12:01] TREY GERRALD: I have one more follow up question.
[00:12:03] TREY GERRALD: I also want to just explain anyone who has not heard of the musical Murder for Two. It is a two hander musical. That means two actor singers who also play the entire score. So they're both Classically trained pianists.
[00:12:21] VOICEOVER: Oh, wow.
[00:12:22] TREY GERRALD: And the show is a murder mystery where there's the detective is one actor. The other actor is all of the suspects.
[00:12:29] VOICEOVER: That's so cool.
[00:12:31] TREY GERRALD: And Joe like created the show with Kellan Blair and played all of the suspects in Chicago. The show went on to off Broadway and Joe has done iterations of the production across the country. So is there a distinction?
[00:12:50] VOICEOVER: It
[00:12:51] JOE KINOSIAN: was at the Geffen, right? It was
[00:12:53] VOICEOVER: at the
[00:12:54] JOE KINOSIAN: Geffen in 2015. Yeah,
[00:12:55] VOICEOVER: but that was before I knew you.
[00:12:59] VOICEOVER: But
[00:12:59] TREY GERRALD: because you, Because you've done the show so many times, like when you're doing a production in like Wichita, You're not, you're not reading the reviews anymore,
[00:13:10] JOE KINOSIAN: or are you? No, so I got my, my equity card in 2009, and that was the last time I really read reviews. Interesting. Because there was one review that, it wasn't even mean, it was just like mildly disappointing.
[00:13:26] JOE KINOSIAN: Disparaging about like how I was not as important as the other actors, which was true. . .
[00:13:32] CHELSEY DONN: You're like, facts. Okay, . I was like,
[00:13:35] JOE KINOSIAN: yeah, but it like, it, it hurt me in a little, in a, in a way that I was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay away from these. Yeah. This is why people say, to stay away from these. Yeah. And since then I've, I've kind of been able to.
[00:13:46] JOE KINOSIAN: To not, uh, not follow them.
[00:13:48] TREY GERRALD: But when you're mounting a show and producers are truly treating these reviews like they're gold, because it has a huge impact on the livelihood of the production. They're the ones dealing with all of it, right? Like you can sort of not have to deal with it because they're going to look.
[00:14:06] JOE KINOSIAN: That's right. And, and that's why they come up. And that's why I know that, uh, the Chicago reviews were what they were because it was like, It was in the, the ether. Like, yeah, it was coming, it was coming at me even if I didn't see it directly. Uh, yeah. And then they producers often will, will find a way to like, hopefully if they're, they're caring and, and trying to, you know, genuinely improve the production of reading all of the reviews to distill what's really universal or like what is a recurring theme that should be addressed in
[00:14:40] VOICEOVER: rewrites.
[00:14:42] JOE KINOSIAN: And, um, Yeah, but I don't know. It's just so funny. Like you just you have to get your foot in the door so that you're like beyond that, because I think so few people really do really don't care about them at all levels. You know, it's just like you do your thing. We'll do ours.
[00:15:00] TREY GERRALD: Okay, but you just mentioned rewrites, and I'm curious.
[00:15:02] TREY GERRALD: Also for the podcast, Let's Start a Coup. When you get these repeated opinions, did you start to think, Oh, maybe Murder for Two should be less silly? Should we try to write a song that isn't as silly? Or are you thinking, okay, when I'm going on to season two of Let's Start a Coup, should I try to change something about myself?
[00:15:24] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, I mean, Kellen and I writing Murder for Two together, we have a good sense of what we're going for and what's in line with that goal and what's not. And I remember the Times review of Murder for Two when we originally opened pointed out one Segment that was, it was a line that got cut between the nonprofit, uh, and then transferring to the commercial production.
[00:15:50] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm-Hmm. , because it was in two theaters in New York. Oh my God. I forgot about that. The Pizza Hut line . And we came in after the review came out and we had this dumb line about Pizza Hut. It really was stupid. And the review pointed it out. And the producer said in the next meeting, like, well, the times did not care for the pizza hotline.
[00:16:10] JOE KINOSIAN: And we thought about, we're like, yeah, that is kind of dumb. So we caught it. We caught it and caught it. We caught it and cut it before it transferred to the commercial production. So I guess in that sense, it was like, okay, we didn't change the whole tone of the show to be a, Brechtian drama because, you know, someone didn't get the point, but someone who did get the point was like, you can do better than that.
[00:16:32] JOE KINOSIAN: And we probably could. Yeah.
[00:16:34] TREY GERRALD: Well, on the flip side of these reviews, how impacted is your personal decision making by online reviews?
[00:16:41] VOICEOVER: Um,
[00:16:44] TREY GERRALD: like, do you look at reviews ever
[00:16:46] JOE KINOSIAN: for like restaurant? Well, I'm the wrong person to ask because I go to like three restaurants and I know they're great because it's they're the only three
[00:16:54] CHELSEY DONN: restaurants I go to, So what you're saying is you trust no one, Trust yourself, Chelsey don't tell you I'm wearing a
[00:17:01] JOE KINOSIAN: tinfoil hat right now, If you've
[00:17:03] CHELSEY DONN: been there and you
[00:17:04] JOE KINOSIAN: can outwear it yourself, you're going, I guess, Is it hypocritical if I look at Yelp then?
[00:17:10] JOE KINOSIAN: What do you think? Is it hypocritical? You Yeah,
[00:17:13] CHELSEY DONN: I don't know. I mean, I look at Yelp all the time. I also ignore the haters. I don't, I feel like I exist on all ends of the spectrum. And I think that that's what's so great about what Trey and I do and what we'll get into when we get into the crowning of this review is we're really are breaking down.
[00:17:31] CHELSEY DONN: Like you said, some people have really negative things to say, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to go. That doesn't mean that it's a deal breaker for me. That might mean that actually Like your producer was saying might end up being a positive, right? Like we read a review a couple weeks ago about a hayride and the person was like, not that scary.
[00:17:51] CHELSEY DONN: And I'm afraid of my own shadow. So I was like, that is excellent.
[00:17:54] TREY GERRALD: That's my hair.
[00:17:55] CHELSEY DONN: That's my hayride. You know what I mean? So, so I do think that there's, there's something and like, if I
[00:18:01] TREY GERRALD: am the child of the person who created dominoes, I'm going to love that line about Pizza Hut because Pizza Hut a show.
[00:18:06] TREY GERRALD: Right.
[00:18:09] JOE KINOSIAN: That's right. Yeah, maybe it's like the general tenor thing, like kind of how, you know, the producers, smart producers will kind of get the median feedback from the reviews that came out and then say, okay, they're all saying that this part is unclear or whatever it is, and maybe that's Yelp too.
[00:18:24] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:18:25] CHELSEY DONN: I think that the hardest thing is being branded with like that three and a half stars and just having people completely write you off.
[00:18:33] JOE KINOSIAN: Mm hmm. Yeah. Wait, Chelsey, can I say one other thing that I love when you read my bio, how you were like, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, award nominations. You did it exactly right, which is nominate, award as loud as you can be, and the nominations like, I'm moving on, moving on, and over here.
[00:18:50] JOE KINOSIAN: Listen,
[00:18:51] CHELSEY DONN: because I get it, you know what I mean? Like, it's an honor to be nominated, you know, it's just an honor to be nominated. The rest of it is who knows what.
[00:19:01] TREY GERRALD: But like, how many people Have been nominated for a Drama Desk Award for a musical. I mean, it's insane. It's like, yeah, there are these like seven players who are always produced.
[00:19:14] TREY GERRALD: How do you write a musical period and then get nominated for a job? I mean, it's fucking insane. Regardless. It really is. That's really
[00:19:23] JOE KINOSIAN: well,
[00:19:24] TREY GERRALD: Joe. We're glad that you're here and you are officially crowned and inducted into the So you are now officially a Review Queen.
[00:19:33] JOE KINOSIAN: The only award
[00:19:34] TREY GERRALD: that matters.
[00:19:39] CHELSEY DONN: Joe, our most newly crowned Review Queen, I am going to be reading a review and together you, me, and Trey are going to break it down, rate the impact of the review on a scale from zero to five crowns. It is a very regal process that we call Assess That Kvetch.
[00:19:59] TREY GERRALD: So Joe, one final question. Are you ready? Yes!
[00:20:04] TREY GERRALD: Bring it!
[00:20:07] CHELSEY DONN: Review That Review! All right, today we're going to Yelp for this review. This is a place that holds a special place in my heart. I don't know about you, but it is called Marie's Crisis. Oh, yes! It is a piano bar in New York City. It's a historic piano bar. According to Google that draws a crowd of gay locals and musical theater performers in dimly lit digs, which I always think about this place as yes, being very dimly lit, but then they have those rainbow like Christmas lights.
[00:20:45] CHELSEY DONN: It's a vibe, you guys. It's a vibe. It's such a vibe. When I was living in New York, I personally went to this place several times a week, so I'm gonna just go ahead and say that bias out loud before we get started. Maria's Crisis only has three and a half stars. It's a vibe. On Yelp. Now, obviously, that's not my opinion, right?
[00:21:05] CHELSEY DONN: So this might stop some people from going. I don't know if this particular review will have that effect. So let's find out together. This is a one star review written by Adam L. of Marie's Crisis Piano Bar in New York City. Here we go. This place is a joke, a bunch of vapid and elitist Singers that exemplify what is wrong with the Broadway crowd, These sub par chorus actors will make you feel bad for being there, Because you're not a regular.
[00:21:58] CHELSEY DONN: This gatekeeping bullshit is ridiculous. The whole time I was there, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, I was just like, Oh, honey, you may be able to carry a tune, but you're still a nobody, end quote. Marie's crisis encourages this elitist behavior to make sure that they're drunk, unsuccessful, unhappy, musical theater rejects, come back, day in and day out.
[00:22:40] CHELSEY DONN: It's called stroking their teeth. Egos. Oh,
[00:22:46] JOE KINOSIAN: okay.
[00:22:47] CHELSEY DONN: And it's working. Failure leads to drinking and drinking leads to profit. I came in the bar, a huge musical theater fan, but I came out questioning if I even wanted to like it. What a shame. A place can do this to someone I've loved. Since a child.
[00:23:19] TREY GERRALD: Wow.
[00:23:20] CHELSEY DONN: Do you think this is Adam Lambert? No
[00:23:25] TREY GERRALD: one would be rejecting Adam Lambert from singing.
[00:23:29] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh my God. Listeners, you need to find a way to see Chelsey Read That Review because her Her body completely changed and you embodied a very angry man. It was great. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:23:46] CHELSEY DONN: Well, Patreon plug there if you want to see the video performance.
[00:23:52] TREY GERRALD: Well, that was so funny. So Joe, what are your first, what's there for you? Have you been to Marie's Crisis? You have, yes. Oh, just a couple of times.
[00:24:01] JOE KINOSIAN: I
[00:24:01] TREY GERRALD: mean, Chelsey was like, do you think, do you think that he's ever been? I hope that he's
[00:24:05] VOICEOVER: been.
[00:24:05] JOE KINOSIAN: I was like, I feel certain that
[00:24:07] TREY GERRALD: he's,
[00:24:07] JOE KINOSIAN: he's been. I have, I have so many thoughts.
[00:24:09] JOE KINOSIAN: I don't know where to begin. I wrote down a few keywords, like elitist. Marie's Crisis is like the cheapest bar for like 10 square miles.
[00:24:19] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:24:20] JOE KINOSIAN: I, unless the drink prices went up since I was last there. I don't think I've been there post season. Lockdown, but I certainly was there in 2019. Like,
[00:24:27] CHELSEY DONN: and also go and get a beer.
[00:24:28] CHELSEY DONN: You don't wanna like mess with
[00:24:29] JOE KINOSIAN: the Yeah. Elitist. I mean maybe he's meaning like elitist, like leaving people out. But like I thought
[00:24:36] TREY GERRALD: elitist as in getting able to sing a song, not the alcohol. Well you have to
[00:24:41] VOICEOVER: tip,
[00:24:42] JOE KINOSIAN: put a tip in the jar, put a tip in the jar and get there early. Like, yeah. That's my main thing is like time of day for Marie's Crisis Get
[00:24:50] CHELSEY DONN: there when they open.
[00:24:51] CHELSEY DONN: You can have Marie's Crisis to yourself if you're gonna go on a Tuesday night,
[00:24:54] JOE KINOSIAN: Chelsey knows, Correct, She knows
[00:24:57] CHELSEY DONN: because she's done it,
[00:24:58] JOE KINOSIAN: Many times, You can do most of the score of Annie if you get there with just your friends, I've done all of Hairspray, One with
[00:25:05] CHELSEY DONN: Michelle, You know,
[00:25:08] JOE KINOSIAN: I mean, uh, It was very funny, especially the way you did it.
[00:25:12] JOE KINOSIAN: But like there, there was an, a lot of self hatred in this review, like this is someone who has some,
[00:25:18] CHELSEY DONN: this is someone who didn't get cast in the chorus in high school.
[00:25:21] JOE KINOSIAN: And like you go in there and yeah, it's, it gets really crowded and the floor was last cleaned. When Marie ran out, so sticky and it is dark, but dark and cheap and loud can be real pluses if you're in the right frame of mind, sinking the score to Chicago can be such a joyous, I agree.
[00:25:50] TREY GERRALD: Well, because I'm sort of getting a story of Adam, Adam keeps separating themselves from the musical theater community. So it sounds to me that Adam is a fan of musical theater, heard that this is a place to like be amongst them and then really felt alienated. So
[00:26:11] CHELSEY DONN: And you know what? I want to validate that for one second for Adam.
[00:26:15] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah, I can too. I will, I will say that when I first went now, luckily I went with a regular, which I think is a really nice bridge. If you have a friend that goes to Marie's all the time and you're thinking about dappling, go with them because that helps. But there is this feeling of like, It's sort of like a cheers for gay people and musical theater enthusiasts.
[00:26:38] CHELSEY DONN: So, if you're not in the place where everybody knows your name, you're probably gonna feel uncomfortable until you get over that hump. But I do think that this review has value in the fact that, yeah, there is a little bit of that In crowd vibe. I do think that Adam takes it a little bit far and I don't think that Adam was trying to be funny.
[00:27:06] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, yeah. Well, wait, I want to back up just for anyone who has, doesn't know what Marie's Crisis is. Marie's Crisis is this tiny, tiny, tiny little hole in a wall bar that literally has a piano player that has like an extended like top that Like, you can put, like, drinks on. He's, like, locked inside of this little, like, square.
[00:27:26] TREY GERRALD: The piano player will play scores to musicals. You can, like, sing. It's like a loud piano bar. That's really strictly musical theater. I think it is only musical theater. Yeah, so that's what Marie's Crisis is if you don't know what it is. But I did write down the word vapid, which I just googled just to make sure I was correct.
[00:27:45] TREY GERRALD: And the definition from the Oxford Dictionary of vapid is offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging. And their sentence is, ironically, tuneful, but vapid. Musical comedies. Wow.
[00:28:04] JOE KINOSIAN: Is that weird? That's the example that they gave you? That's their sentence that they used. So it's like, insubstantial.
[00:28:09] CHELSEY DONN: Does it say underneath it, like, example by Adam L.? He's like, let me take this to Oxford, you know?
[00:28:18] TREY GERRALD: To your point about humor, I don't know. I also don't think that Adam is intending to be humorous. There's something. It's Really hurt, kind of sh really exceedingly shady to like Yeah. Sort of a, we, I feel like we crossed over to like really inappropriate, I mean, it's very funny.
[00:28:37] CHELSEY DONN: What's, what's the Broadway crowd? What do we think that is?
[00:28:41] JOE KINOSIAN: I don't, how do you define it? I, I feel it's not, I don't know. I don't know that it's like people working in theater who go there. It's just people who love it. That's what I think too. Yeah. And I think the love of it is more, it overpowers the vapidity.
[00:28:55] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, I would agree. But, is that real? Look that one up. Um, yeah, no, y'all are very insightful. I also don't think for the record that he was trying to be funny. It was like, it definitely came from a place of hurt and being left out. And that's not good for anybody. Right?
[00:29:12] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah. It is funny, but I think that that's like a side effect of what feels to be this really intense ostracized feeling.
[00:29:22] TREY GERRALD: And I think that's funny. It lands funny to me because I've actually felt that way at Marie's Crisis. Yes. Because I don't, I hate karaoke. So it's just a nightmare to begin with. But when you're there and it's super busy, it's really hard to get a song played because there's all of the regulars. But I also recognize.
[00:29:40] TREY GERRALD: I'm a visitor here, so I don't know that I would have such a visceral, like, angry reaction.
[00:29:46] CHELSEY DONN: So, at Marie's, are there solos? Yes. Are they usually the waiters who work there? Yes. So, a lot of the songs are sung as a group, right? We're all singing this song together. So where I'm a little bit confused with Adam and him being such a musical theater stan until this moment, as he claims to be, what is he talking about with the gate keeping or, The judgment, right, of the other people singing, like, Oh, you may be able to carry a tune, but you're nobody, honey, like, what, like, what are you getting at?
[00:30:21] CHELSEY DONN: When you go to Marie's Crisis, you're there to sing with everybody. And maybe you're going to have to sit through, you know, Janet, who was on Broadway in 1975. So I love her work,
[00:30:34] VOICEOVER: love her work, love
[00:30:35] CHELSEY DONN: her, like Maggie Worth. Who was not there anymore, who was there for like a million years. She wore a Canadian tuxedo every single day in the summer.
[00:30:44] CHELSEY DONN: It was Canadian tuxedo with shorts and the winter was Canadian tuxedo with pants, either way, both stretchy. And I really appreciated it. And the woman was a star nowhere, but she was a star at Marie's. And I think that if you're going to come to this place, With that kind of judgmental attitude, it's sort of interesting that Adam is calling everybody out for being so judgmental when they were probably judgmental about him because he's sitting there being like, you're a nobody, like, yeah, in this community who is very tight knit and is sort of looking out for each other as sort of rough around the edges as they might be, they're going to sniff that out and know they're not going to want you in their house.
[00:31:31] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:32] TREY GERRALD: Yeah.
[00:31:33] CHELSEY DONN: I think this is a self fulfilled prophecy for Adam.
[00:31:36] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, I think, Joe, you picked up on that in the first comment. It does feel a lot of, like, self hatred as, like, underlining this. Do you think this is typical? Do you think, like, this is a common experience going there?
[00:31:48] JOE KINOSIAN: I think if you went, I'm curious what time of day or what, what day of the week he went, obviously he went in like later at night, he must have
[00:31:56] CHELSEY DONN: gone like a
[00:31:56] JOE KINOSIAN: Saturday, Saturday night.
[00:31:58] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah. And it probably, it was like, they were pulling requests, but there were a lot of requests in the hat already. And the regulars who are there. Yeah. When they intersperse their songs, they don't even have to ask what that person's gonna sing, because Janet always sings Skid Row, parentheses, downtown.
[00:32:14] VOICEOVER: So
[00:32:17] JOE KINOSIAN: there is that like a pre existing relationship, and I think you have to have a little bit of love and respect for the regulars.
[00:32:25] JOE KINOSIAN: I think it's like when you go into a place like that, it's like, it's, it's their home. It's their community. It's almost like you're a straight person going into a gay bar, which in this context, maybe that is exactly what's happening. But like, That level of like, okay, I'm visiting. I want, like, I want to respect what's been predetermined already, if that makes sense.
[00:32:47] CHELSEY DONN: Totally. What do we think about the business advice that Adam decides to land at the end? It's working. Failure leads to drinking and drinking leads to profit. Like, thank you for that. Where's that coming from? Well,
[00:32:58] TREY GERRALD: I think we talked about this early on because I don't necessarily think that the people working on Broadway are going to Marie's Crisis on a normal basis.
[00:33:06] TREY GERRALD: So, I think the people are there out of joy. They're singing out of joy. I don't think they're singing from a place of failure, in my opinion. But does failure lead to drinking? Probably. And does drinking lead to profit? I think so, right? Bars are very, bars aren't going anywhere. But that does feel, it does feel emblematic.
[00:33:25] TREY GERRALD: It does feel like an outsider coming in and on the outside.
[00:33:31] VOICEOVER: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Sing Waving Through a Window. You'll feel better at home.
[00:33:35] CHELSEY DONN: I know. I know. I
[00:33:36] VOICEOVER: also,
[00:33:37] JOE KINOSIAN: this is the road that led him to discover he didn't like musicals. Well, it's a much cheaper road than going to see a show. And much cheaper You got a beer, you probably heard at least one song you liked, you got a Heineken, you got a lifetime of stick on your shoes you will never get off, but even that I find kind of charming, I don't know if that's weird, I'm partial to this place, so there you go,
[00:34:06] TREY GERRALD: I
[00:34:07] JOE KINOSIAN: know, Adam,
[00:34:09] TREY GERRALD: Adam, I hope you're okay, Do you think Adam was writing this, getting an ice cream cone at Big A Ice Cream?
[00:34:14] TREY GERRALD: Yeah,
[00:34:17] CHELSEY DONN: I think that he's writing a song called Since a Child at Big A Ice Cream next door and he's like, Since a child, I had a dream of dreams and time gone by. All
[00:34:30] TREY GERRALD: right. So before we crown, is there, is this a deal breaker? If reading this and you're from Milwaukee and you're excited to go to Marie's Crisis, is this going to have an impact on you?
[00:34:41] TREY GERRALD: Let I don't know. I mean, if I've never been there and I'm reading reviews of Marie's Crisis,
[00:34:47] JOE KINOSIAN: yeah, it's a good question because I mean, I'm a kind of introverted musical theater person and maybe this would put me off, but I have to. You were saying the reviews are pretty average. Three and a half. Three and a half
[00:35:02] CHELSEY DONN: overall.
[00:35:03] CHELSEY DONN: That's
[00:35:03] JOE KINOSIAN: too bad. I
[00:35:04] TREY GERRALD: know.
[00:35:04] JOE KINOSIAN: That really is too bad because it's a special place. But also maybe it's
[00:35:06] CHELSEY DONN: good because it keeps the Adams out. But who's writing a
[00:35:09] JOE KINOSIAN: review of Marie's Crisis?
[00:35:12] CHELSEY DONN: I should. I really should for all the times I went.
[00:35:14] JOE KINOSIAN: This kind of makes me want to write one. Right? Just say everything right.
[00:35:18] JOE KINOSIAN: Let's get that up to
[00:35:19] CHELSEY DONN: a 3.
[00:35:20] JOE KINOSIAN: 8. We're going to have some moments. And they're working so hard. It's so hard. It's a live piano player who can do literally anything you want. Yeah. How do you get that job? And
[00:35:28] CHELSEY DONN: they're talented. They're really talented. You know, like they have to be so good to be able to play all this music and
[00:35:35] JOE KINOSIAN: adjusting keys.
[00:35:35] JOE KINOSIAN: And they know that when I've had two martinis that you're never fully dressed without a smile has to be slower. Oh,
[00:35:44] CHELSEY DONN: yes, they can adjust the tempo based on how many drinks you're on. Like it turns into
[00:35:47] TREY GERRALD: like a real stroke. All right, I think I can crown. Okay,
[00:35:52] CHELSEY DONN: let's go, let's go into the crowning and I'm going to do a little Maggie Worth impersonation in the after show.
[00:35:57] CHELSEY DONN: So if that's not a reason to join Patreon.
[00:36:00] JOE KINOSIAN: Joe, you ready to crown? Yes, I'm writing my number really big on marker.
[00:36:05] VOICEOVER: Okay, perfect. So,
[00:36:07] TREY GERRALD: Chelsey, Joe, and I all have our own set of 0 5 crown cards. In an effort to be fair and not influence one another, we will simultaneously reveal our rating.
[00:36:17] VOICEOVER: The Queens are tabulating.
[00:36:25] CHELSEY DONN: Okay, Joe and I are unanimous with two crowns, Trey's coming in with one and a half. Joe, you go first. Tell us why you gave two crowns to Adam Lambert. I mean, Adam Lambert,
[00:36:37] JOE KINOSIAN: Adam Pascal. Well, um, listening to y'all talk about the exclusionary component boosted it a little bit for me. Cause at first I was like, how dare you come into this semi sacred space
[00:36:54] CHELSEY DONN: Yes,
[00:36:54] JOE KINOSIAN: with no windows and no fire escape and, and tell people that they're not doing it right when all they're trying to do is express their love for this horribly marginalized art form.
[00:37:09] JOE KINOSIAN: That's right. But then you think of how musical theater people, as you're saying, Trey, can be, can be a little bit like, Oh, you've never heard of the golden apple from 1954. Nevermind, you know, or like, can't, can't talk about anything else. So that boosted it a little bit. And I feel for Adam and I want Adam to find his tribe.
[00:37:28] JOE KINOSIAN: So I raised it probably by one from where it would have been.
[00:37:33] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, I feel that. Chelsey, why did you say two?
[00:37:36] CHELSEY DONN: Very similar reasoning to Joe. There was a part of my heart that just, I think, connected here with Adam. And I do feel I relate to the idea of feeling excluded. And I do think there is a A little bit of that vibe.
[00:37:50] CHELSEY DONN: So I think that if I did read this review prior to going to Marie's, like let's say I read. A really good five star and I read this. I think it falls somewhere in between those two and I do think there's value there and that was why I went with two crowns. But I do think this is a lot about Adam and not a lot about Marie's and a lot of sort of name throwing and a lot of bullying for someone who's been bullied.
[00:38:16] CHELSEY DONN: So for that reason, I couldn't go above two crowns, but I did want to throw them the two. Not quite middle of the road as Trey likes to say, but Trey went. for a full crown below Middle of the Road with that one and a half. So let us know why.
[00:38:32] TREY GERRALD: So I said one and a half because ultimately I just think it's really mean spirited.
[00:38:36] TREY GERRALD: There are some truths in here perhaps, but I think they are truths to someone that is feeling an experience of life the same as Adam, which I don't think is everyone in the world. And I also just the whole assessment of a community of people when you aren't in the of people just feels icky to me. And saying singers in quotes, like the first sentence or two sentences is like singers in quotations.
[00:39:01] TREY GERRALD: Like it's just so shady that even so I, if I agree on some of the points, this would not have like a deal breaking impact for me. I would want to read other reviews. So I just said one and a half.
[00:39:14] JOE KINOSIAN: You're making me real. Can I tell a little anecdote? Something my friend David and I said a long time ago, which is, We said it about gay men, but I think it's actually just true about musical theater fans.
[00:39:24] JOE KINOSIAN: Okay. We're the only people who can cry while judging. And we saw this high school production of Once on this Island. I don't know, were they all white? No. We've all seen that production too.
[00:39:40] CHELSEY DONN: Wait,
[00:39:40] JOE KINOSIAN: what
[00:39:40] CHELSEY DONN: did you say, In My Life? In My Life.
[00:39:41] JOE KINOSIAN: Uh, no, uh, Once on this Island.
[00:39:43] CHELSEY DONN: Oh.
[00:39:44] JOE KINOSIAN: We can talk about it in my life forever.
[00:39:46] JOE KINOSIAN: It was my favorite show. A machine pork
[00:39:47] CHELSEY DONN: alone.
[00:39:51] JOE KINOSIAN: So, this production of Once on this Island was performed by high schoolers who had survived Hurricane Katrina. Yes. Oh, wow. So, they were, they were amazing. They were so talented. They did a great job. And the audience is sobbing start to finish because you know it's so emotional that show already and then you combine it with the fact of who they were.
[00:40:11] JOE KINOSIAN: But then when they sing the song Ti Moune, uh, the girl playing Ti Moune said, um, now I go without one backward look when she's leaving her parents, right? And she was facing her parents. So I was like, okay. You're talking about not doing a backward look while you're looking backward. So I've like tears running down my face, but I'm like, that's not the text.
[00:40:35] JOE KINOSIAN: Well,
[00:40:37] VOICEOVER: that's
[00:40:39] CHELSEY DONN: going to be emotional, but I'm also like, who, what would like, What was the director thinking?
[00:40:47] JOE KINOSIAN: If you were in that production, let's think you did a great job. I was just like a one choice. I would have, you know, had a quibble.
[00:40:54] CHELSEY DONN: That's okay. That's how my mom always was when she would come see me in a show, everyone will be like, you were so great.
[00:40:59] CHELSEY DONN: She's like, I've noticed the mistake you made. You know,
[00:41:06] TREY GERRALD: it's game time. Oh my goodness. Here
[00:41:11] CHELSEY DONN: we
[00:41:11] TREY GERRALD: go. Today. I have formulated a one of a kind never existed before game specific to Joe. So listeners, you're going to play along and we're going to find out together. Do you Kinosian this Broadway
[00:41:26] VOICEOVER: Overture?
[00:41:29] TREY GERRALD: The name of the game is, Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:41:35] TREY GERRALD: So I have selected ten Broadway, openings, overtures, first down beats of a musical.
[00:41:43] CHELSEY DONN: I don't stand a chance, I'm just
[00:41:45] TREY GERRALD: gonna say it. And Chelsey is gonna compete against Joe.
[00:41:49] CHELSEY DONN: You're
[00:41:49] TREY GERRALD: gonna be great, we're gonna get those. In full disclosure, some of these songs will be a chord. Okay. Some of these songs will I think the longest clip I have is 35 seconds.
[00:42:03] TREY GERRALD: So in fairness,
[00:42:04] JOE KINOSIAN: I
[00:42:07] TREY GERRALD: originally had a concept of doing musicals for Joe and doing operas for Chelsey just so that she would really lose,
[00:42:15] CHELSEY DONN: but we're not doing that.
[00:42:17] TREY GERRALD: Okay. So just in the vein of Adam L, if any of our listeners do not know Broadway Overtures from We're going to include them in the community. So we're going to let all of the clips play out in their entirety.
[00:42:29] TREY GERRALD: But when you, Chelsey, when you, Joe, when you listener, when you know the show, you're going to shout out Kinosian.
[00:42:43] TREY GERRALD: Okay. So that way we'll determine. Who gets to go first, Chelsey or Joe, and then when the clip ends, I will ask for the answer. If you are incorrect, the other contestant gets a chance to guess.
[00:42:56] CHELSEY DONN: Having heard the whole clip.
[00:42:58] TREY GERRALD: And the other person's guess. So, okay, and I'm looking for the name of the show.
[00:43:04] CHELSEY DONN: Okay.
[00:43:04] TREY GERRALD: and
[00:43:05] CHELSEY DONN: Not the composer. I'm never gonna. No, no, no.
[00:43:08] TREY GERRALD: I wasn't gonna say that. I'm looking for the actual title of the track of the song
[00:43:14] CHELSEY DONN: now.
[00:43:14] TREY GERRALD: So it needs to be named. Okay, so some
[00:43:17] JOE KINOSIAN: are overtures and some are just like openings, opening numbers.
[00:43:21] TREY GERRALD: Correct. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, one more time, we're gonna be playing, Do You Kinosian?
[00:43:30] TREY GERRALD: This Broadway Overture for opening of the show. Alright, Chelsey and Joe, are you ready to play?
[00:43:38] VOICEOVER: Yes.
[00:43:39] TREY GERRALD: Okay, here we go, number one.
[00:43:43] VOICEOVER: Kinosian!
[00:43:50] CHELSEY DONN: Oh.
[00:43:50] TREY GERRALD: I mean
[00:43:51] CHELSEY DONN: That was me, I won. I clearly I think it was
[00:43:54] TREY GERRALD: Chelsey. Chelsey, what is it?
[00:43:56] CHELSEY DONN: Okay, um, that was Hairspray, and the song was Good Morning Baltimore.
[00:44:02] TREY GERRALD: Woo! Chelsey,
[00:44:04] JOE KINOSIAN: you are right.
[00:44:05] TREY GERRALD: Woo!
[00:44:06] JOE KINOSIAN: Mark Shaman, composer. Can I get partial credit?
[00:44:09] CHELSEY DONN: All those EPAs definitely came in handy.
[00:44:12] JOE KINOSIAN: Can we play this all day? This is like the most fun I've ever had.
[00:44:17] TREY GERRALD: Chelsey, do you know the composer and lyricists?
[00:44:20] CHELSEY DONN: Uh, no. I don't know. I don't go that deep.
[00:44:23] TREY GERRALD: It's not part of the game, but Joe, what, who are they?
[00:44:25] JOE KINOSIAN: I know Mark Shaman is the, is it Scott Whitman? That's right.
[00:44:30] TREY GERRALD: Yeah.
[00:44:30] JOE KINOSIAN: I know Mark Damon's composer. Yeah.
[00:44:33] TREY GERRALD: Here we go. I love that. Okay. Okay. Get ready. Here we go. Number two.
[00:44:36] TREY GERRALD: You ready?
[00:44:36] VOICEOVER: Yeah.
[00:44:37] TREY GERRALD: Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?
[00:45:02] JOE KINOSIAN: All right. That was clearly Joe. Yeah. That's from the Phantom of the Opera. And I believe that is the overture, but I believe it plays after the little, um,
[00:45:12] VOICEOVER: A collector's piece, Yeah, there's a
[00:45:15] JOE KINOSIAN: scene, Locked 666, I need to nerd out for a moment, I love that the show starts with just a long book scene,
[00:45:26] TREY GERRALD: I know, also it was funny to me compiling these, oh wait, you're right, because just the like synthesizer sound is such a giveaway, Oh, totally.
[00:45:39] TREY GERRALD: It's of the era. All right, we're tied. You both have a correct. So here we go. Number three.
[00:45:55] CHELSEY DONN: Wait, really? Kinosian? Is it, is it, um, is it Peter Pan? Do you have any,
[00:46:04] TREY GERRALD: are you guessing?
[00:46:05] CHELSEY DONN: Is it Peter Pan? Because this
[00:46:06] TREY GERRALD: ends if you're guessing.
[00:46:07] CHELSEY DONN: I'm guessing. I'll guess Peter Pan.
[00:46:14] TREY GERRALD: Joe, do you want a hint? I would love a hint. I don't think I get it though. Well, I don't know how. Just
[00:46:21] CHELSEY DONN: play it. You want to just play it again? I'm going to
[00:46:23] TREY GERRALD: play it one more time and just think. This is produced a lot.
[00:46:35] JOE KINOSIAN: I have a second guess. Forever Plaid.
[00:46:41] VOICEOVER: Is it the Nutcracker?
[00:46:44] CHELSEY DONN: She's the wings.
[00:46:45] VOICEOVER: All
[00:46:48] TREY GERRALD: right, let me do, let me do another hat. It's the same composer as Phantom of the Opera.
[00:46:52] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, Little Night Music?
[00:46:59] JOE KINOSIAN: That's an Andrew Lloyd Webber show? Uh, Whistle Down the Wind.
[00:47:08] TREY GERRALD: What was Andrew Lloyd Webber's first musical?
[00:47:11] JOE KINOSIAN: Joseph. Joseph was his first. Cat, it's Joseph.
[00:47:19] TREY GERRALD: Some folks dream of the wonders they'll do.
[00:47:22] JOE KINOSIAN: Okay, I only know the 1968 first recording, the one where Quentin Blake of Roald Dahl fame did the illustrations, so I, uh, I should know that. So, Trey, you're right. That, that smirk you're giving me is correct.
[00:47:39] TREY GERRALD: I just thought, I love that you guys didn't know it. I thought it was really obvious, which is why I made it three because I thought it would be too easy. I mean, you
[00:47:47] CHELSEY DONN: thought it'd be obvious. You remember the little Bow Wow moment? I mean, did you think that all of a sudden I was
[00:47:52] TREY GERRALD: going to have a Jacobin?
[00:47:53] TREY GERRALD: All right, here we go. So, this one. Jacobin? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yes, Jacob and Sons. Jacob and Sons is the first song. Number four. Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:48:03] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian! Well, I think I Kinosian it now, but don't beat me
[00:48:12] VOICEOVER: on this
[00:48:22] TREY GERRALD: one.
[00:48:32] TREY GERRALD: Alright, Joe, you got it, what do you think it is?
[00:48:36] JOE KINOSIAN: I believe it is Les Misérables, um, but is the song called Look Down, or is it? Yeah, I think it's Look Down.
[00:48:45] TREY GERRALD: Yeah. Is it? Yeah. No, it's not. It's called Overture. Work song. Work song. Okay. Work song.
[00:48:52] CHELSEY DONN: But still, that's a point for Joe.
[00:48:54] TREY GERRALD: a prologue, like in the libretto, but not on the track.
[00:48:58] TREY GERRALD: So we're just gonna, you knew it was Les Mis.
[00:49:00] CHELSEY DONN: That was a point for Joe. That's two to one. I got there, but not, not as fast as Kinosian.
[00:49:06] TREY GERRALD: Okay, here we go. This one, this one is, Well, we'll see. I don't know.
[00:49:11] VOICEOVER: Oh, God.
[00:49:11] TREY GERRALD: Okay. Joe Kinosian, this Broadway overture? Kinosian.
[00:49:17] JOE KINOSIAN: Already? Sorry, Chelsey. Sorry. Yeah, I know that D5 to a C major 7 anywhere.
[00:49:24] JOE KINOSIAN: Alright, what is it? That is Into the Woods.
[00:49:27] CHELSEY DONN: I'm not a big Into the Woods fan, I'm sorry to say. Oh, you're not? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I know it's controversial.
[00:49:35] JOE KINOSIAN: It's um, pros and cons for sure. Cause you know, it does have some lines that really wishes our children, but you know, it's, it's got a lot of good stuff on it.
[00:49:43] TREY GERRALD: Mark Tuminelli, friend of the pod. That's his, he like cringes at that.
[00:49:49] JOE KINOSIAN: It's a tough lyric for a song. Yeah. It's a little, it's a little corny. Okay, here we go. That was so good, Joe, oh my god. Oh my god. I believe it's called Prologue. When in doubt.
[00:50:02] TREY GERRALD: Classic title. Yeah. Okay, here we go. Okay. Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?
[00:50:11] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian?
[00:50:12] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian.
[00:50:28] TREY GERRALD: Sadly, Joe went into the original choreography and said the word Kinosian,
[00:50:33] VOICEOVER: so,
[00:50:34] TREY GERRALD: um, Chelsey, you got it. What do you think that is?
[00:50:38] CHELSEY DONN: That's Fiddler. That's Fiddler on the Roof. Yes.
[00:50:41] TREY GERRALD: The literal best. And
[00:50:42] JOE KINOSIAN: what is
[00:50:43] CHELSEY DONN: the song called? Overture. Fiddler. The Fiddler on the Roof. It's okay, I got the point. Tradition!
[00:50:51] CHELSEY DONN: Tradition! Tradition! Thank you.
[00:50:57] TREY GERRALD: All right. So, ooh, Chelsey, you're doing so much better than I thought.
[00:51:01] CHELSEY DONN: I'm proud of you. And that's only because Joe broke into the choreography. How
[00:51:05] JOE KINOSIAN: can you hear that and not just do a little bottle down? All right, here
[00:51:11] TREY GERRALD: we go. Do you, Kinosian, this Broadway Overture?
[00:51:18] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, Kinosian.
[00:51:25] CHELSEY DONN: Alright,
[00:51:41] CHELSEY DONN: Chelsey. Last Five Years. Chelsey! Whoa! I do love Jason Robert Brown.
[00:51:48] TREY GERRALD: Have you ever heard of The Last Five Years, Joe?
[00:51:50] CHELSEY DONN: No.
[00:51:51] TREY GERRALD: Oh, what's that called, Chelsey? What's the track called?
[00:51:55] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, God, I'm really bad with the name of songs. I will always It's just called Still Hurting. Oh. Okay,
[00:52:01] JOE KINOSIAN: guys. Jamie
[00:52:03] CHELSEY DONN: is over and Jamie is on, that one.
[00:52:05] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know that show very well.
[00:52:08] CHELSEY DONN: It's time to move on,
[00:52:10] JOE KINOSIAN: Trey, we're singing. I know you're trying to play the game, but there's a song happening. I know, I'm struggling here. I mean, we just
[00:52:15] CHELSEY DONN: talked about Marie's husband.
[00:52:18] TREY GERRALD: Okay, so we have three more, plus Plus a tiebreaker. So here we go.
[00:52:24] TREY GERRALD: We're neck and
[00:52:24] CHELSEY DONN: neck. You're going to win. You're going to win.
[00:52:27] TREY GERRALD: Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
[00:52:41] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian! Kinosian! Kinosian! Kinosian! Kinosian!
[00:52:51] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian! So pretty. I like the end.
[00:53:00] JOE KINOSIAN: Joe, do you know? I believe that's Oklahoma.
[00:53:04] CHELSEY DONN: Oh,
[00:53:05] JOE KINOSIAN: very good, Joe. The first like couple measures could have been literally any. I know. I thought it was Music
[00:53:11] CHELSEY DONN: Man for a second. I didn't know where we were.
[00:53:13] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah. Very traditional. So unspecific.
[00:53:15] JOE KINOSIAN: Yes. Oh, it's, uh, those are the days when they could afford orchestras. I know. It's a lot of instruments. That
[00:53:22] CHELSEY DONN: was gorgeous.
[00:53:24] TREY GERRALD: All right. Love it. Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture? Oh, God, I can't. Oh,
[00:53:32] JOE KINOSIAN: I Kinosian it. Oh,
[00:53:38] CHELSEY DONN: I know, I Kinosian
[00:53:45] JOE KINOSIAN: it. Alright, Joe, you were first. The producers.
[00:53:55] CHELSEY DONN: It's just probably overture, right?
[00:53:56] CHELSEY DONN: Cause it was like a bunch of the Hitler in there. Also, I really
[00:54:00] TREY GERRALD: struggled with, um, Good Morning Baltimore because there actually is an overture that is not on the cast recording. Oh, that starts going, it leads into the beginning of Good Morning Baltimore. But I don't even remember
[00:54:13] JOE KINOSIAN: that from seeing the play.
[00:54:14] TREY GERRALD: It's like a couple seconds. And it's more or less the same.
[00:54:17] JOE KINOSIAN: Interesting.
[00:54:18] TREY GERRALD: All right, here we go. Okay. Here is our final one of the main round. Never want this game to end. Get ready. Just get ready. It's the last one on purpose.
[00:54:27] CHELSEY DONN: Oh, no. Okay.
[00:54:28] TREY GERRALD: Uh oh.
[00:54:28] VOICEOVER: I'm scared.
[00:54:30] TREY GERRALD: Okay.
[00:54:34] CHELSEY DONN: Kinosian.
[00:54:37] JOE KINOSIAN: Kinosian. If it's
[00:54:39] CHELSEY DONN: what I think it is. Kinosian. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think.
[00:54:44] TREY GERRALD: Yeah. All right. Well, Chelsey, you were first.
[00:54:51] CHELSEY DONN: Okay. So I think this is Chicago.
[00:54:55] TREY GERRALD: I'm wrong!
[00:54:56] JOE KINOSIAN: You're so close though. You're like a couple You're
[00:55:00] TREY GERRALD: so
[00:55:00] JOE KINOSIAN: close. All right, Joe, you did clock in second. She should get half a point for that because that's the same composer as Cabaret.
[00:55:09] CHELSEY DONN: It's a Wilkommen
[00:55:11] JOE KINOSIAN: from Cabaret
[00:55:11] CHELSEY DONN: Boy. Okay. All right. Well, at least I got the same composer.
[00:55:16] TREY GERRALD: You don't get a point, Chelsey.
[00:55:17] CHELSEY DONN: That's okay. I didn't give myself
[00:55:19] TREY GERRALD: one. You're not our guest. All right, here we are. So ironically, Chelsey has three and Joe has six. But this is the tiebreaker. This is for the game. This is for the game.
[00:55:32] TREY GERRALD: So this is actually worth 10 points. Oh my God. Well, so anyone could win. You ready?
[00:55:39] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[00:55:40] TREY GERRALD: Yes.
[00:55:46] VOICEOVER: Kinosian.
[00:55:51] CHELSEY DONN: Is this your show? Yeah. Just because I know how his brain works.
[00:56:17] TREY GERRALD: All right, Joe, you were first.
[00:56:19] JOE KINOSIAN: I believe that's Murder for Two, the Drama Desk nominated hit of several years back. I'm gonna say
[00:56:25] CHELSEY DONN: that's Insider Baseball, but I'll allow it.
[00:56:28] TREY GERRALD: No, Joe, what is that title?
[00:56:34] JOE KINOSIAN: It's Prelude, right? Prelude and Waiting in the Dark? Just
[00:56:38] TREY GERRALD: Prelude. Okay. So why is it, so what is a prelude?
[00:56:42] TREY GERRALD: Why not an overture or prologue? What is a prelude?
[00:56:45] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, because an overture is definitionally taking parts from other songs and our prelude was like, you know, it's before the like show really gets going, but it's, it's, it was an original thing. It uses at the very end, the piece of another song, but it's mostly original.
[00:57:04] TREY GERRALD: Well, Joe, A, a huge sweet here. A here a landslide . A real landslide.
[00:57:10] JOE KINOSIAN: Stevie Nicks .
[00:57:13] TREY GERRALD: Congratulations, Joe. You are the winner. Yay.
[00:57:18] JOE KINOSIAN: I'm honored. Chelsea. It's great. You got, thank you.
[00:57:21] CHELSEY DONN: I, you know, I, I feel like. Prouder of myself than I thought I would at the end of this, I will say. I don't think it completely embarrassed myself and my family.
[00:57:28] TREY GERRALD: No, I do have one final question though. So I chose the prelude. So let's not speak. And I just want to play it for a second because I have a question for you.
[00:58:16] TREY GERRALD: Okay, I think it's so funny, but it's music. How do you do that?
[00:58:23] JOE KINOSIAN: My god, thank you. That, that is the absolute best compliment I could get on that because that was exactly the idea is to set up that this is a zany show, but set up that the two actors are really going to play well for you and like have a lot, um, the music is going to factor in very heavily but it was just really funny to me that that the one actor would have all the all the complicated stuff high up on the piano and the other would just play one single note in response like like a very unhelpful scene partner just meh and so you know he tries playing really quietly and sweetly and the other guy bangs on the piano and then he plays really loud and the other one does like a real soft one and i was also thinking of like what would be fun to act because even as a when i'm thinking musically i'm still thinking like an actor you Because that person is on stage, they're still helping tell the story, no matter what.
[00:59:13] JOE KINOSIAN: And so I was like, it would be funny to make faces while you were doing something like that.
[00:59:17] TREY GERRALD: And when did that piece get developed? Was the show sort of formed already? Or was that the first
[00:59:24] JOE KINOSIAN: thing? No, it was, um, so we had the world premiere in Chicago. Chicago. And then it was added when we came to New York and it was actually, can I drop a little bit of a name?
[00:59:35] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh, wait. Was it Sondheim? No, it wasn't. Although he did say he liked it. I know he did. I wasn't there, but I heard. No, um, it was Stephen Schwartz of Wicked fame who, Cause his son directed it, right? His son directed it. Yep. Uh, Scott Schwartz directed it. And, um, Stephen Schwartz came to a preview and was like, I really liked the first song, but I feel like it doesn't demonstrate virtuosic piano playing.
[01:00:02] JOE KINOSIAN: And could you do something that starts it off? That was like virtuosic. Would that just like give the audience more of an understanding of the show? So the assignment was just that. Exciting, complicated, like Grieg esque complex piano music. And then I was like, oh, let's also like think of what they're doing and like how physically that could be funny.
[01:00:23] JOE KINOSIAN: Cause the show ends with a very physical piano thing that's just playing too. So, bookend.
[01:00:28] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah, thanks. That's really
[01:00:30] JOE KINOSIAN: sweet of you, Trey. Thank you for saying that.
[01:00:31] CHELSEY DONN: So, so captivating from the second it starts. I love it.
[01:00:36] JOE KINOSIAN: I also like one of my favorite quotes about music. I know we're going over time, but you'll, you'll love this is a critic asked Adi DeFranco where her, her guitar voice came from, like her jangly, like that sort of like.
[01:00:51] JOE KINOSIAN: And she said it was from playing piano bars that she loved to be really loud and then go completely silent because that was the only thing that shut the crowd up.
[01:01:00] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah,
[01:01:01] JOE KINOSIAN: and so I was also like the idea of like playing something like you heard really loud and then a lot of pause just to like make people self conscious and shut up and pay attention.
[01:01:09] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah,
[01:01:10] TREY GERRALD: that's so smart. And when you listen to it, because I saw the show multiple times in person, but when you listen to the cast recording, Just the, it's so funny, even without seeing the physical comedy or the character interplay, you just get it's like, fabulous. Like it plays still. Never takes itself
[01:01:32] JOE KINOSIAN: seriously.
[01:01:32] JOE KINOSIAN: Yeah,
[01:01:33] TREY GERRALD: totally. Oh, thanks. Wow. This has truly been so much fun.
[01:01:38] CHELSEY DONN: So fun.
[01:01:39] TREY GERRALD: The whole rigmarole is not going to end. end here we are gonna pop over to patreon but joe thank you so much for joining us today we love you so dearly thank you for helping build credibility for our podcast by giving us such an amazing theme song i mean it really it was one of the most repeated bits of compliment that we i got When we first started it was like, holy shit.
[01:02:02] TREY GERRALD: Cause it's the first thing you hear.
[01:02:04] VOICEOVER: Yeah.
[01:02:04] TREY GERRALD: Oh, you can all follow Joe on Instagram. This is an update. It's new Joe Kinzo. That's J O E K I N Z O. You could listen to the podcast. Let's start a coup exclamation mark on all of the podcast players that exist. Listeners, if you are interested and you would like to license Murder for Two at a theater near you, you can obtain the performance rights@concordtheatricals.com.
[01:02:33] TREY GERRALD: To learn more about Joe and his frequent writing partner that I personally love, Kellan Blair, you can visit KinosianandBlair. com. Joe, are there any projects, any things on the horizon that you could maybe tease or not tease?
[01:02:47] JOE KINOSIAN: Everything is very nebulous, as I told you. Um, I did a musical called It Came From Outer Space, premiered at Chicago Shakespeare last summer, and that's it.
[01:02:54] JOE KINOSIAN: There will hopefully be another production of that, uh, somewhere wonderful, uh, before too long, but it's definitely, you know, in, in the works. See Murder for Two if it's in your city. Yes.
[01:03:08] CHELSEY DONN: Yes, for sure. Well, okay. Before we jump over onto our Patreon, Joe, we like to ask our guests one final question. What is one piece of advice you'd give on how to manage and handle online haters?
[01:03:20] JOE KINOSIAN: Oh, put down your phone and read a book.
[01:03:23] CHELSEY DONN: Yeah.
[01:03:24] JOE KINOSIAN: Honest to God. I read a book called Stolen Focus and it's just basically about how dangerous the habit of a smartphone can be. And it really inspired me to like, okay, definitely got to like continue the uphill climb because I want to, I want to look at it right now, you know,
[01:03:44] VOICEOVER: but
[01:03:44] JOE KINOSIAN: the uphill climb of like focusing and getting your focus back and, um, using your time for you and not for what you think you should be doing, which is wasting time, right?
[01:03:55] JOE KINOSIAN: I love that. No judgment, but cause you know, we're all wrong. We're all in this together. But, uh, yeah, that was very inspiring. It's
[01:04:01] CHELSEY DONN: true. It's so true because we feel like the whole world exists on our smartphones because we're on them all the time. But the reality is it doesn't and there's life outside of your smartphone.
[01:04:11] CHELSEY DONN: And I'm not quoting Avenue Q, but
[01:04:14] TREY GERRALD: Oh, but I appreciate your point of view in the world of creating with both sides being true of valuing and not valuing reviews and opinions and how it doesn't stop you from creating because that can stop a lot of people, but it hasn't stopped you, which is very inspiring.
[01:04:33] JOE KINOSIAN: Well, thank you. I mean, uh, uh, there's that Warhol quote about make art. And then while people are talking about it, make more art. And that's a good guideline. It's like, people are going to say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. And just, Oh,
[01:04:46] VOICEOVER: I love
[01:04:46] JOE KINOSIAN: that.
[01:04:47] TREY GERRALD: Yeah, it's a good one. Well, we did it Queens.
[01:04:50] TREY GERRALD: That is another round on the R U A R Q Ferris wheel of Did you get it? I did the, I did the prelude. Oh, oh, oh, oh, no, I got it.
[01:05:01] CHELSEY DONN: If you like what you heard, please tell a friend.
[01:05:04] TREY GERRALD: If you did not like what you heard, please tell an enemy.
[01:05:07] CHELSEY DONN: On this week's After Show pod, we are diving deeper with Joe as we rate and review a one star review he personally received.
[01:05:17] TREY GERRALD: Uh oh. Can't wait. And Joe is also going to take a spin on the Meryl Go Round. And somehow, this got said.
[01:05:28] VOICEOVER: These are your review queens!
[01:05:34] TREY GERRALD: And as always, remember, ignore
[01:05:37] CHELSEY DONN: the haters, you're a queen!
[01:05:40] TREY GERRALD: Gender non specific queen. Bye!
[01:05:42] CHELSEY DONN: Thanks
[01:05:43] TREY GERRALD: for listening to this very special review episode of the show. We would love for you to leave us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, whatever platform it is that you're listening on right now. And Why don't you go ahead and share the show?
[01:05:58] TREY GERRALD: It makes a giant impact for our reach. So, go ahead, post it in your story on Instagram, make a TikTok about it. No sharing is too big or too little. Love ya! Sign up directly on Apple Podcasts to hear our weekly, members only aftershow. Unlock additional benefits when you become a Patreon member at reviewthatreview.
[01:06:18] TREY GERRALD: com slash patreon. Follow us on all the socials at TheReviewQueens and join our mailing list at ReviewThatReview. com. Our Kvetch line is open 24 7 at 1 850 REVIEW ZERO. You never visit, you never write, give us a call NOW!
Review That Review is an independent podcast. Certain names have been redacted or changed to protect the guilty. Executive produced by Trey Gerrald and Chelsey Donn with editing and sound designed by me with voiceover talents by Eva Kaminsky. Our cover art was designed by LogoVora and our theme song was written by Joe Kinosian and sung by Natalie Weiss.
Photo by Girl with red hat on Unsplash
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